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  1. #25


    Compared to the mediocrity we watched at the QB position before 2008, Flacco has already cemented himself as the greatest QB in franchise history.

    Rice's fumbles in playoff games is killing his HOF prospects.

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    After 5 years of early exits, the journey is finally complete.




  2. #26

    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    You know as well as I do that a significant chunk of national media and other fans attribute much of that winning percentage to the defense and Ray Rice.

    No, it isn't fair, but Joe is going to have to put up better regular season numbers for those people to give him that HOF respect.


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    The thing is though, to me the problem isn't Joe's stats, or lack thereof, it's that these writers don't differentiate between a cultivated QB who puts up numbers and how they were early in their career. The difference here in Joe's case is that the Ravens wouldn't have won the SB this season without his level of postseason play. Brady threw 1 TD and 1 INT his first SB run. Not his first SB, I mean in that whole postseason in particular. Roethlisberger set the record for lowest rating in a SB win in his first trip. But the kicker is that before either started even putting up numbers, they were already in HoF talks for winning rings by relying on defense and a running game. Which, ironically, is the same thing people say when they give reasons why Joe isn't on their level. I'd like to see better regular season stats and I agree it would make the argument for Joe a ton easier, but honestly, if he wins more rings and plays like he has in the playoffs these last two seasons, he'll be HoF caliber QB regardless of his regular season stats or whether or not writers give him his due.

    Aside from that, the defense wasn't all that great this season, playoffs included, and Rice had his worst playoff performance to date. There was about 300 yards and a couple TDs, but he also coughed the ball up 3 times. So obviously Joe can still win without either. He just needs to continue to prove he can do so.




  3. #27
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    I really don't care about Flacco's stats. Don't care if he makes the HOF either. All I know is that if Joe leads the Ravens to one more Super Bowl victory, in the next five years, I'll be ... Bc




  4. #28
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    I think they are making a good foundation for HOF. We'll see how the stats look after the next five years.
    I'm hoping they can keep RRice and maybe make him more of a third-down back / pass catcher to take some of the hits off of him (let Pierce and AAllen do some of the drudge work).
    honestly, I don't think there are that many big-time backs in the league right now.
    Flacco doesn't get Pro Bowl attention cuz of his numbers, but who cares? maybe after a year or two of Coach Caldwell's offense he'll add that to his resume.
    even if Flacco and Rice don't make it to the HOF...ask Dan Marino and Ladamian Tomlinson whether they'd trade their HOF for a ring. Hmmm.
    Baltimore Ravens, 2012 NFL Champions!




  5. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by pcook4012 View Post
    he wins more rings and plays like he has in the playoffs these last two seasons, he'll be HoF caliber QB regardless of his regular season stats or whether or not writers give him his due.
    It's impossible to make it into the HOF without writers giving him his due...the writers are the guys that vote for the HOF.

    And that's the point I'm trying to make.

    Joe...or any other player can't bypass national and regional writers to get to the HOF...no matter how much we love him here. Period.

    He is going to have to put up stats some of these years that are up there with his current peers. Having middle of the road QB stats isn't going to cut it unless this team goes on a dynasty'esque run.


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    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  6. #30

    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    FYI...the site everybody goes to to support their argument of players who they haven't seen, PFF released it's top 100 players of last season.

    Guess who was number 100.

    100. Joe Flacco, QB, Baltimore Ravens (Unranked)

    If this list were built solely on those four postseason games that culminated with the Ravens’ quarterback hoisting the Lombardi Trophy, then Joe Flacco would rank right at the very top. But it’s not, and there were 16 other games that can’t be discounted where Flacco struggled with accuracy for a Ravens team that stumbled into the playoffs. Flacco was truly special in the playoffs, showing the kind of poise and knack for the big play that was integral in his team winning it all.

    Best Performance: Week 16 versus New York Giants, +6.8

    Key Stat: Owned a stunning 16 touchdowns to zero interception ratio on all balls thrown at least 20 yards in the air.

    92. Ray Rice, RB, Baltimore Ravens (85th)

    The Ravens Rice didn’t get this selection on the back of his running between the tackles. His 1,143 yards are nothing to be sniffed at, but Rice would only finish 19th in our pure running back rankings as he more or less took what the opposing defenses gave up. Where he did excel was catching the ball out of the backfield where he was our top-ranked back and added 478 yards and one incredible fourth down conversion. An extremely important asset to the Ravens.

    Best Performance: Week 1 versus Cincinnati, +3.1

    Key Stat: Only Darren Sproles had more targets than the 80 he was afforded.

    63. Anquan Boldin, WR, Baltimore Ravens (Unranked)

    There’s a lot of talk about Boldin being a guy that can’t get open. Be that as it may, he’s still a guy who (with defenders all over him) makes tough catches that move the chains. And it was that ability that was one of the key differences in why it was the Ravens, and no other team, that won the Super Bowl last year. Really stepped it up in the postseason and that’s why he makes the list.

    Best Performance: Week 4 versus Cleveland, +3.3

    Key Stat: Including the playoffs, dropped only three passes all year long.

    32. Marshal Yanda, RG, Baltimore Ravens (34th)

    For so often the top right guard in the league, nothing changed in 2012. As reliable as it gets in pass protection and a powerhouse with his run blocking, there may not be a more reliable player in the league at any position than Yanda. Always gets the job done.

    Best Performance: Week 4 versus Cleveland, +5.2

    Key Stat: Had a Pass Blocking Efficiency rating of 98.4. That’s the best for all right guards in the league.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  7. #31
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Barring something completely unforeseen there is no way Rice gets HOF consideration. Really aside from Peterson I'd be surprised if any active RB makes it. The position is so undervalued right now with how the league is changing.

    Joe could quite easily makes it if he continues his superb play in the playoffs, and gets another ring. The HOF is literred with players who were never especially good in the regular season, but always turned it on in the playoffs. Like nearly every Steelers offensive player. The biggest thing working against him right now is the media perception as has been stated, but another ring would go a long way to change that.

    But no way will it come close to 96. Ray is arguably the greatest defensive player in the NFL history regardless of position. In my mind Ogden is inarguably the best LT ever. Both drafts were pretty weak other than the top 2 picks, but at least in 96 we also got Jermaine Lewis, who was a fantastic return man for us. Compared to 08 which got us two decent ST players in Nakamura and Zbikowski




  8. #32

    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpiderWebb View Post

    Joe could quite easily makes it if he continues his superb play in the playoffs, and gets another ring. The HOF is literred with players who were never especially good in the regular season, but always turned it on in the playoffs. Like nearly every Steelers offensive player. The biggest thing working against him right now is the media perception as has been stated, but another ring would go a long way to change that.
    Not compared to their peers when they played. And that is what they base the HOF on.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  9. #33
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Not compared to their peers when they played. And that is what they base the HOF on.
    Are you referring the Steelers players? When were Franco Harris, John Stallworth or Terry Bradshaw(I'll leave off Swann, but even that is VERY debatable) ever considered the best at their position even among their peers?




  10. #34
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpiderWebb View Post
    Are you referring the Steelers players? When were Franco Harris, John Stallworth or Terry Bradshaw(I'll leave off Swann, but even that is VERY debatable) ever considered the best at their position even among their peers?
    Being the best at your position isn't the only qualifier for the HoF.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #35
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Being the best at your position isn't the only qualifier for the HoF.
    I said AMONG the best, not the best.

    Edit: No I didn't, sorry. Meant that though.




  12. #36

    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpiderWebb View Post
    Are you referring the Steelers players? When were Franco Harris, John Stallworth or Terry Bradshaw(I'll leave off Swann, but even that is VERY debatable) ever considered the best at their position even among their peers?
    Franco Harris retired as the second leading rusher of all time. Terry Bradshaw was a 2 time All Pro and made the 70's all decade team. Stallworth also made 2 All Pro teams and actually had much better stats than Swann.

    While they may have not been THE best player at their position...A.) You don't have to be #1 at your position...just in that elite group for a period of time. And B.) All those players put up multiple top 5 seasons at their positions in the regular seasons to go along with their success.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




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