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  1. #16
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft



    Flacco just needs to keep winning. His regular season record so far is an astounding 54-26 @ .675 winning%. Through just 5 years, he is already #77 all time for regular season wins. Another 50 wins and he is in the top 10.

    Flacco's stellar 9-4 playoff record also puts him amongst the greats. He is tied for 10th most playoff wins amongst QB's alltime. And that is only through 5 years. He has as many playoff wins as Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, and Jim Kelly. More wins than Steve Young, Marino, and Eli. I left out the old schoolers since there weren't as many playoff games back then (Unitas won 6). Flacco has almost twice as many playoff wins as Brees and Rodgers, who have 5 each.

    Seeing as how Flacco doesn't play in a pass first offense, and maybe never will, his career will likely be judged on how many games he wins. By that measure, he is definitely off to a HOF start.




  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    Flacco just needs to keep winning. His regular season record so far is an astounding 54-26 @ .675 winning%. Through just 5 years, he is already #77 all time for regular season wins. Another 50 wins and he is in the top 10.

    Flacco's stellar 9-4 playoff record also puts him amongst the greats. He is tied for 10th most playoff wins amongst QB's alltime. And that is only through 5 years. He has as many playoff wins as Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, and Jim Kelly. More wins than Steve Young, Marino, and Eli. I left out the old schoolers since there weren't as many playoff games back then (Unitas won 6). Flacco has almost twice as many playoff wins as Brees and Rodgers, who have 5 each.

    Seeing as how Flacco doesn't play in a pass first offense, and maybe never will, his career will likely be judged on how many games he wins. By that measure, he is definitely off to a HOF start.
    You know as well as I do that a significant chunk of national media and other fans attribute much of that winning percentage to the defense and Ray Rice.

    No, it isn't fair, but Joe is going to have to put up better regular season numbers for those people to give him that HOF respect.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  3. #18
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    They do now, but I think if Joe keeps it up for the next 5-10 years, peoples opinions will change.




  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    They do now, but I think if Joe keeps it up for the next 5-10 years, peoples opinions will change.
    He's going to have to pick it up in the stats department.

    In this day and age of prolific passing stats, whoever goes to bat for him can't just quote team win-loss record...it's too easy for others to debate against.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  5. #20
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    I agree with woodlawn, Flacco is still for whatever reason disliked by a lot of pundits, he's going t0o have to make a few pro bowls and have some nice statistical seasons to make it in. Ray Rice like I said will never be the best single back in the NFL mainly due to his lack of size, but because he's been so consistent with production and continues that way for the duration of his contract, I can easily see him making it.




  6. #21
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    I think RiW is spot on here.

    Because of his style of play, Flacco has the daunting task of not only winning but changing media perception. It's sports writers that vote for the HoF and once a narrative on a player sets in, it's tough to shake. He's on the right track though. It's just going to take a lot more than one ring to do it.

    As for Rice, he has a lot more to prove than Joe. His position has become saturated with talent and his playoff record as a whole is not very impressive, his monster game in NEa few years ago not withstanding.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  7. #22

    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    i doubt you could find any team in the nfl that would take a prime flacco or prime rice over a prime ray or prime ogden....in all honesty its not even close




  8. #23
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by blacknpurplepain View Post
    I very seriously doubt that Flacco becomes the most important Raven ever eventho he plays the most important position. Ray Lewis is a God in Bmore so Flacco will never take that crown.. At this time Joe has no pro bowls compared to Ray, JO, Reed and Rice had during their first 5 years. Joe had a great PO run and played better once Cam got fired but IMO Joe has to carry the Ravens on his back before being considered HOF worthy or most important Raven ever.


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk
    He carried the Ravens on his back during the playoffs... Where were you? Ray Rice was sucking it up and the Ravens 17th ranked defense gave up 88 postseason points, the most points allowed by a Super Bowl winning team in NFL history. They also gave up the most yards. Yet that didn't matter. The Ravens won anyways because of Joe Flacco's playoff run which was the second greatest playoff run in nfl history.

    Hell, Flacco over the past three YEARS has carried his team on his back in the playoffs. With an 18-2 TD/INT ratio, and that SHOULD be 20-2 if Lee Evans and Boldin didn't let him down. That is the second best 3 year span in NFL history, second to only Joe Montana's 88-90 stretch where he had a 22-3 ratio.

    Flacco's last three years he's performed better in the playoffs than players like Brady, Peyton, and Roethlisberger have played if you took their three BEST playoff years and combined them.

    This is why it's so funny that Flacco has to "do it again" to be considered an elite quarterback. If Flacco can do something like this again, he'll cement himself as the second greatest playoff quarterback in NFL history.




  9. #24
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by inexplicable View Post
    Ogden and Lewis are two of the greatest NFL players in history, but by the end of his career Joe Flacco will probably end up being the most important player the Ravens ever had.
    Blasphemy. When Flacco plays here for 17 years, and is in the argument for greatest football player ever, maybe. But to put perspective on it, as GREAT as the mighty Peyton Manning is/was to the Colts, Johnny Unitas is still 'the man' as far as the Colts franchise goes.

    Ray Lewis ~ BAR NONE




  10. #25
    Compared to the mediocrity we watched at the QB position before 2008, Flacco has already cemented himself as the greatest QB in franchise history.

    Rice's fumbles in playoff games is killing his HOF prospects.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
    After 5 years of early exits, the journey is finally complete.




  11. #26

    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    You know as well as I do that a significant chunk of national media and other fans attribute much of that winning percentage to the defense and Ray Rice.

    No, it isn't fair, but Joe is going to have to put up better regular season numbers for those people to give him that HOF respect.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    The thing is though, to me the problem isn't Joe's stats, or lack thereof, it's that these writers don't differentiate between a cultivated QB who puts up numbers and how they were early in their career. The difference here in Joe's case is that the Ravens wouldn't have won the SB this season without his level of postseason play. Brady threw 1 TD and 1 INT his first SB run. Not his first SB, I mean in that whole postseason in particular. Roethlisberger set the record for lowest rating in a SB win in his first trip. But the kicker is that before either started even putting up numbers, they were already in HoF talks for winning rings by relying on defense and a running game. Which, ironically, is the same thing people say when they give reasons why Joe isn't on their level. I'd like to see better regular season stats and I agree it would make the argument for Joe a ton easier, but honestly, if he wins more rings and plays like he has in the playoffs these last two seasons, he'll be HoF caliber QB regardless of his regular season stats or whether or not writers give him his due.

    Aside from that, the defense wasn't all that great this season, playoffs included, and Rice had his worst playoff performance to date. There was about 300 yards and a couple TDs, but he also coughed the ball up 3 times. So obviously Joe can still win without either. He just needs to continue to prove he can do so.




  12. #27
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    I really don't care about Flacco's stats. Don't care if he makes the HOF either. All I know is that if Joe leads the Ravens to one more Super Bowl victory, in the next five years, I'll be ... Bc




  13. #28
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    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    I think they are making a good foundation for HOF. We'll see how the stats look after the next five years.
    I'm hoping they can keep RRice and maybe make him more of a third-down back / pass catcher to take some of the hits off of him (let Pierce and AAllen do some of the drudge work).
    honestly, I don't think there are that many big-time backs in the league right now.
    Flacco doesn't get Pro Bowl attention cuz of his numbers, but who cares? maybe after a year or two of Coach Caldwell's offense he'll add that to his resume.
    even if Flacco and Rice don't make it to the HOF...ask Dan Marino and Ladamian Tomlinson whether they'd trade their HOF for a ring. Hmmm.
    Baltimore Ravens, 2012 NFL Champions!




  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by pcook4012 View Post
    he wins more rings and plays like he has in the playoffs these last two seasons, he'll be HoF caliber QB regardless of his regular season stats or whether or not writers give him his due.
    It's impossible to make it into the HOF without writers giving him his due...the writers are the guys that vote for the HOF.

    And that's the point I'm trying to make.

    Joe...or any other player can't bypass national and regional writers to get to the HOF...no matter how much we love him here. Period.

    He is going to have to put up stats some of these years that are up there with his current peers. Having middle of the road QB stats isn't going to cut it unless this team goes on a dynasty'esque run.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  15. #30

    Re: 2008 draft and the 1996 draft

    FYI...the site everybody goes to to support their argument of players who they haven't seen, PFF released it's top 100 players of last season.

    Guess who was number 100.

    100. Joe Flacco, QB, Baltimore Ravens (Unranked)

    If this list were built solely on those four postseason games that culminated with the Ravens’ quarterback hoisting the Lombardi Trophy, then Joe Flacco would rank right at the very top. But it’s not, and there were 16 other games that can’t be discounted where Flacco struggled with accuracy for a Ravens team that stumbled into the playoffs. Flacco was truly special in the playoffs, showing the kind of poise and knack for the big play that was integral in his team winning it all.

    Best Performance: Week 16 versus New York Giants, +6.8

    Key Stat: Owned a stunning 16 touchdowns to zero interception ratio on all balls thrown at least 20 yards in the air.

    92. Ray Rice, RB, Baltimore Ravens (85th)

    The Ravens Rice didn’t get this selection on the back of his running between the tackles. His 1,143 yards are nothing to be sniffed at, but Rice would only finish 19th in our pure running back rankings as he more or less took what the opposing defenses gave up. Where he did excel was catching the ball out of the backfield where he was our top-ranked back and added 478 yards and one incredible fourth down conversion. An extremely important asset to the Ravens.

    Best Performance: Week 1 versus Cincinnati, +3.1

    Key Stat: Only Darren Sproles had more targets than the 80 he was afforded.

    63. Anquan Boldin, WR, Baltimore Ravens (Unranked)

    There’s a lot of talk about Boldin being a guy that can’t get open. Be that as it may, he’s still a guy who (with defenders all over him) makes tough catches that move the chains. And it was that ability that was one of the key differences in why it was the Ravens, and no other team, that won the Super Bowl last year. Really stepped it up in the postseason and that’s why he makes the list.

    Best Performance: Week 4 versus Cleveland, +3.3

    Key Stat: Including the playoffs, dropped only three passes all year long.

    32. Marshal Yanda, RG, Baltimore Ravens (34th)

    For so often the top right guard in the league, nothing changed in 2012. As reliable as it gets in pass protection and a powerhouse with his run blocking, there may not be a more reliable player in the league at any position than Yanda. Always gets the job done.

    Best Performance: Week 4 versus Cleveland, +5.2

    Key Stat: Had a Pass Blocking Efficiency rating of 98.4. That’s the best for all right guards in the league.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




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