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  1. #49
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?



    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    If you are going to go bombs away on with those deeper drops, you'll probably need better LT play.
    And that isn't exactly Caldwell's style, or at least that isn't what he did in the playoffs and that isn't what he did when he was with the Colts either.
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  2. #50
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Anyone aware of Barrett Jones, C from Alabama's progress on recovering from his injury??
    The guy was a very versatile guy in the interior over the last 4 years for Alabama.
    He can play all 3 interior spots. IF Gino is not the guy in the middle, Jones would fit perfectly with his size and mentality.

    Not having a stud at LT means you need to have a stout center. Jones if he is healthy, Travis Frederick if he is not...if Gino is not the guy.
    I think the whole Oline is dependent on Gino's play right now.




  3. #51
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    And that isn't exactly Caldwell's style, or at least that isn't what he did in the playoffs and that isn't what he did when he was with the Colts either.
    Its a fair analysis though, while many teams are working the middle of the field with slants, dump offs, zone/read, etc. the Ravens took a vertical approach. A lot of teams just arent equipped to do that and it does require a little more time for the play to develop. Gotta take shots when they present themselves
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  4. #52

    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    You know, I really agree with this. I just don't think that you NEED a top tiered LT anymore to be successful. The Ravens haven't had a consistent top-tiered LT since Ogden and they've been one of the most successful franchises over the past 5-6 years. And that was with the albatross around their necks that was Cam's game planning and in-game non-adjustments.
    I think weve clearly had some inconsistencies. whether on our line or in the WRs. Its hard to break it down to one thing, but when the line plays well typically it results in better play overall (supporting why OL as a whole being the most important). Weve been successful without an Elite but i think you need a good pass protector if youre going to throw the ball consistently. As good as weve been, our offense hasnt been consistent at carrying this team, except the playoff run. Was that because of Caldwells play calling/philosophy, or was it that McKinnie, although not elite, is a darn good pass protector? I think we discussed this before. i dont think you necessarily need an elite T, but you do need a T that matches your gameplan. If we plan on throwing alot its more prudent to have a pass protector thats maybe more of liability in the run game. Run heavy, vice versa, and if you plan on doing both they should be somewhat proficient in both. The differences between McKinnie and Oher arent so much there talent level, but their expertise. To me Ohers a better run blocker than pass protector, but maybe hes more average at both. McKinnie is a bad run blocker but good pass protector. you can work with their mediocrity if you implement their skills properly, which at least in the playoffs, our staff did.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I think Caldwell's play calling, philosophy, and game planning will really help in this department, but the Ravens definitely need better receivers.
    we do need better receivers, but that could come with in house growth of talent too. this is where i see Caldwells influence more than anywhere. Not trotting out the same old formations and basic patterns. I actually saw trips formation. i cant remember the last time i saw Cam use that, if he even has.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    And that isn't exactly Caldwell's style, or at least that isn't what he did in the playoffs and that isn't what he did when he was with the Colts either.
    not to the degree of Cams, but we did still take some shots. with flaccos strength being his arm thats always going to be the case while hes here. Manning has pretty consistently been one of the highest of attempts over 20 yards, I think he actually led the league last year (Flacco and Rodgers 2nd), despite his weaker arm. I really dont expect that aspect to change with Caldwell, flacco and torrey/jones. Well still be going deep plenty.
    -JAB




  5. #53
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I think Beatty has the tools to be a top 5 tackle tbh, but as already pointed out, he only really played well last year. He's an example of a very rare second round pick who has excelled at LT eventually, you don't find many guys like that.
    He still played well to get a $38M contract.
    I said he was the only one of the last 4 SB LTs who wasn't all pro. The article I posted from NY said he is very physical and very good at protecting the blind side which someone still laughs at.

    Again, we started winning with Mac at LT and KO next to him and SF had all pro Joe Staley protecting their blind side. Denver got into the POs with all pro Ryan Clady at
    LT and Atlanta had Tyson Clabo and their fans are worried about replacing him with
    inexperience. They all won during the regular season protection
    their blind sides.

    And here's Pitta's SB TD with Joe working the middle and just note the protection he
    gets from the blind side. He had all night. Torrey makes this play happen because
    he required top coverage. So did Jacoby. That left the middle wide open.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX33A7HZAM8
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-23-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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  6. #54
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    Its a fair analysis though, while many teams are working the middle of the field with slants, dump offs, zone/read, etc. the Ravens took a vertical approach. A lot of teams just arent equipped to do that and it does require a little more time for the play to develop. Gotta take shots when they present themselves
    Absolutely and I don't disagree with that.

    My point was that Cam's philosophy was to take those deep shots EVERY other play [/purposefulexaggeration] and in that regard you would need a stud LT, RT, LG, RG, and OC. You would have to have a stellar OL because your QB needs 5,6,7 seconds to let the play develop (if it develops at all, which is another problem Cam's offense had).

    Caldwell calls some deep shots, but his play calling and game plan allowed for those deep shots to be better calculated in that the defense wasn't expecting it all of the time.
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  7. #55
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    He still played well to get a $38M contract.
    I said he was the only one of the last 4 SB LTs who wasn't all pro. The article I posted from NY said he is very physical and very good at protecting the blind side which someone still laughs at.

    Again, we started winning with Mac at LT and KO next to him and SF had all pro Joe Staley protecting their blind side. Denver got into the POs with all pro Ryan Clady at
    LT and Atlanta had Tyson Clabo and their fans are worried about replacing him with
    inexperience. They all won during the regular season protecting
    their blind sides.
    I dont know why you keep insisting that Tyson Clabo is a LT.
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/depth/_/...tlanta-falcons
    LT - Sam Baker
    LG - Justin Blalock
    C - Todd McClure
    RG - Peter Konz
    RT - Tyson Clabo

    And I was laughing at you for referencing the "Blind Side" movie. Whenever there is a discussion about the LT position and someone references that movie all I can think about is Sandra Bullock doing some really overblown southern accent talking about how the LT basically needs to be this physical specimen, which after high school, Michael Oher was not. Forgive me if I thought that was funny.

    I'm sure William Beatty would be just as effective as a RT as he is at LT, but how does a multi-year deal prove how good a player really is? Eric Wright signed a 5 year, $38 million dollar deal in 2012 with Tampa Bay. Does that mean he must be a good corner? I certainly don't think so and many were truly shocked at the contract which he got from Tampa. Obviously Tampa felt that the contract was too much as well and recently voided the contract and re-signed Wright for a 1 year deal worth up to $3 million. I mean, we could go on and on and on about how contract doesn't mean much of anything in terms of how good a player actually is. Another player that comes to mind is Kevin Kolb and the deal he got from Arizona. For the record, I'm not saying that William Beatty is not or won't be worth the deal he signed with the Giants. Gauging how good a player is based on their contract is just bad business. If that were proportionately true then the Redskins and Raiders would have been fighting for the Super Bowl every year during the late 90's and 2000's.
    Last edited by wickedsolo; 04-23-2013 at 09:56 AM.
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  8. #56

    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Joe's arm strength is not something a lot of offensive coordinators have the luxury of creating a game plan for. Getting burned for 50 to 60 yard chunks of yardage puts pressure on the defense to cover more of the field and opens things up underneath. I just don't see where they will not incorporate that into the game plan. How much I think depends on how the defense plays the Ravens offense. If they are sitting in the box trying to take away the run or in tight coverage to take away short passes then I expect to see bombs away like in the playoffs with Caldwell as the coordinator. I agree the game plan can help, but if your linemen aren't able to allow the time needed to go deep then you help the defense by removing that aspect of your offense. Bring Big Mac back for 1 or 2 years seems to be the obvious choice to solidify the line.




  9. #57
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Perhaps a little OT, but how good was it that Ozzie drafted KO rather than Peter Konz? He came back in round 4 with GG (Center) who he wanted all along. Konz was the media's choice, but wise old Oz knew better... Bc




  10. #58
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Perhaps a little OT, but how good was it that Ozzie drafted KO rather than Peter Konz? He came back in round 4 with GG (Center) who he wanted all along. Konz was the media's choice, but wise old Oz knew better... Bc
    This seems to happen frequently. The media always pins X player to the Ravens, and Ozzie always pulls the rabbit out of the hat so to speak by drafting a gem that nobody linked to the Ravens.




  11. #59
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    The point of the blind side in the book is to show how important it is. LeeAnne/Sandra Bullock didn't even write the book but if that's all you think about then fine. If you wanna laugh at the Post article saying Beatty is physical and good, fine. Laugh. If you wanna laugh at the Atlanata J article, fine.

    Big Mike had nothing to do with the book. He didn't even like it but again, it showed what happened to Theisman when you don't have the blind side covered.

    All I'm, saying is, the LT position is still important in football and I've given enough info
    to show a lot of pro bowlers get their teams to the playoffs and the SB. The teams with the good QB and LTs got to the SB the last two years whether anyone here thinks so or not.

    I even showed the PItta TD showing how much protection Joe had from the blind side while working the middle of the field.

    I really have enjoyed this discussion. At least nobody called me a bitch like the other tread and I didnt get any nasty PMs. I'm just giving my humble fucking opinion.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-23-2013 at 11:46 AM.
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  12. #60
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    The Blind Side is more about his story of being adopted than the position. And in high school they ran every play behind him in some games. Line up and do it again, because the opponent couldn't stop it.

    You reference a lot of LTs from 10 years ago but the league has changed. If you have a chance to grab one at the top of the draft, you do it so you're set. But I don't think it's critical to have anymore IMO.
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