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  1. #13

    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?



    I get the feeling that the Ravens intend to run a up tempo no huddle game - I don't know that even if the resign McKinnie, if he will have the conditioning to keep up with the game. Big men tend to lack a element of stamina when it comes to keeping that bulk moving, snap after snap after snap.




  2. #14
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    JO spoiled us so much at LT that we're now seeing just how much we miss him with
    Oher failing miserably there.

    As for Solo's remarks:

    CASE IN POINT.

    Ravens started winning when McKinnie finally showed up at LT and beat the shit out
    of his side of the line along with KO at LG. They were like Mount Rushmore together.

    This showed how desperate we were until a good LT showed up. JO also had a great LG next to him in Mulitalo.

    CASE IN POINT:

    SF got into the playoffs and SB with a great Joe Staley so there were two very good
    LTs (both making the pro bowl at various times) in SB 47.


    We missed the boat when Mike Nolan jumped in front of Ozzie to grab Joe Staley, whom we just beat in the SB but he is a good LT. The Ravens presser after drafting Grubbs was like a morgue after just missing out on Staley. BTW, that move got Nolan fired when he gave up a future #1 to get Nolan and he couldn't bring in top talent the rest of the year and the team failed. It bit him in the ass.

    CASE IN POINT:

    And don't forget the Squeelers probs that coincided with their o-line probs. They really
    need a good LT. They drafted DeCastro and Adams and still had probs.

    Yup, good LTs are needed as JO proved year after year.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-22-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    I'm not so sure how much of it was McKinnie and how much was Caldwell's play calling and allowing Flacco more control. If he sees an unbalanced rush coming he can audible out (and he did).

    Sure we still need a power running game when the situation calls for it but Leach helps that
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  4. #16
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    And as for Oher, here Film Study gives him a final grade of D- @ LT and
    C+ @ RT for the year.

    See link for what he needs to do to improve at RT.



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  5. #17
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    And as for Oher, here Film Study gives him a final grade of D- @ LT and
    C+ @ RT for the year.

    See link for what he needs to do to improve at RT.


    http://russellstreetreport.com/films...line-analysis/

    He was pretty tough on all of them outside of Yanda and the team still won the SB
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  6. #18
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    I think you're right.

    Back in the fall, me and few other cats (Leach, Arnie IIRC, and a few others) were kicking around the "3-man wall" idea as what's really required to have an effective and efficient passing game (provided your QB is not a bum).
    Three-man wall => G-C-G or T-G-C or C-G-T. The thought behind it relates to...
    1) QB comfort and where he's confident that he can step to/scramble to if he feels and/or sees pressure, (<-- can make a reasonable conclusion with data)
    2) It's easier for your blocking back to execute, and (<-- hard to prove with data)
    3) You can scheme a focused game plan around it (<-- impossible to prove with data)

    I don't know what we'll have at C, but Gino looks to be well-regarded by the FO, so we're only looking for depth there I'm figuring. T is a roster hole, so that is what's driving my draft strategy of getting the best T as early as possible. Looking at McKinnie's reliability and Oher's poor performance, someone who didn't play there in 2012, is likely to play most of the snaps there in 2013. That's a big deal to me.

    To your point, there's value from Armstead in the 2nd on through to Nixon, Mills, Bakhtiari, etc. in the 4th and 5th. I'm very interested to see what we do.

    Referencing Steve's article and follow-up article that's coming, I'd like to take that info and then map it against some tape from Joe, Rogers, Cutler, and maybe a few others to see if the "3 man wall" has any validity in the real world.
    Yea I like the three man wall, but I was of the line of thinking I'd rather it be a g c g wall, because then all you have to ask of your tackles is to not get beat inside, push the defender wide, don't square up so he can get inside then joe can step up into a clean pocket if the wall is in the interior.

    I'd still take a left tackle if I had the option though




  7. #19
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Film gave Yanda final grades of A and A- for the year. See link above.

    Film was always right and we lost the first game of the year in Philly when Oher was beat on the outside and Joe was sacked and stripped on the first play of the game. People talked about Rice's poor running in the playoffs but there were tons of times he didn't see holes from his big blockers on the line so he became most effective catching short passes over the line. If Oher was so good he'd still be at LT but he almost got Joe killed in Philly.

    We won the SB because of the great blocking on the left side of the line and up the middle over KO, Birk and Yanda.

    KO got final grades of A- and A- plus a B for play.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-22-2013 at 05:33 PM.
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  8. #20
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    JO spoiled us so much at LT that we're now seeing just how much we miss him with
    Oher failing miserably there.

    As for Solo's remarks:

    CASE IN POINT.

    Ravens started winning when McKinnie finally showed up at LT and beat the shit out
    of his side of the line along with KO at LG. They were like Mount Rushmore together.

    This showed how desperate we were until a good LT showed up. JO also had a great LG next to him in Mulitalo.
    I certainly think that JO spoiled the Ravens fan base. One of the greats, for sure.

    However, was the success of the OL because of McKinnie? Or was it because of KO? I think that is an interesting debate because while McKinnie played really well in the playoffs, he wasn't overly outstanding. However, the interior OL of KO, Birk, and Yanda were phenomenal.

    I get that you're all hard core "I hate Michael Oher" and everything, but when I watch the playoffs I am more impressed by the play calling and execution from Flacco than I am from McKinnie (or Oher).

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco
    CASE IN POINT:

    SF got into the playoffs and SB with a great Joe Staley so there were two very good
    LTs (both making the pro bowl at various times) in SB 47.


    We missed the boat when Mike Nolan jumped in front of Ozzie to grab Joe Staley, whom we just beat in the SB but he is a good LT. The Ravens presser after drafting Grubbs was like a morgue after just missing out on Staley. BTW, that move got Nolan fired when he gave up a future #1 to get Nolan and he couldn't bring in top talent the rest of the year and the team failed. It bit him in the ass.
    Joe Staley is far from great and neither is McKinnie. Those guys are good players and Staley has been consistently solid for the Niners for a long time. However, I'd hardly call him great. I'd call him really good. This goes back to that whole "elite" term people like to throw around. It's arbitrary and means nothing. Staley is a good fit for what the Niner's do. I'd also like to point out that Staley has a hell of a guard lined up right beside him in Mike Iupati. Now, you could certainly make a case that Iupati is one of the elite guards in the NFL.

    The whole point of the OL is to have 5 guys who can function together because the sum total is greater than individual parts. If Oher ends up being the LT, but KO, Gino, Yanda, and the RT end up being studs, then Oher's downfalls become much less apparent and impact the game plan significantly less.

    Again, the game plan can work around inadequacies. Boldin wasn't a fast guy at all, but he was money in the slot and could out-muscle DB's for the ball. Under Cam, Boldin was asked to work the sideline and run deep patterns, which caused him to have difficulties evading coverage. Under Caldwell, Boldin played predominately in the slot, worked the middle of the field, and was schemed to work against smaller nickel corners and linebackers in the red zone. Clearly, Caldwell understood what Boldin's strengths were more than Cam and game planned accordingly. That's just one example.

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco
    CASE IN POINT:

    And don't forget the Squeelers probs that coincided with their o-line probs. They really
    need a good LT. They drafted DeCastro and Adams and still had probs.
    You're right. The Steelers do need a LT...oh wait. That's right. They won a SB with less than stellar OL play and they got to the SB in 2010 with an OT rotation of Jonathan Scott and Max Starks. Neither of which are outstanding tackles.

    Sorry man. The Steelers are a really bad example of how important the LT is. Ben Roethlisberger thrives under pressure and is one of the best QBs in the game after the play breaks down. If anything, the Steelers are a great example of why having a stud LT is NOT imperative anymore.


    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco
    Yup, good LTs are needed as JO proved year after year.
    JO was a Hall of Famer and also played in a different NFL. Though he only retired a few years ago, the NFL has really evolved the last 2-3 seasons. Great offenses are now almost entirely based on a brilliant offensive game planning and an elevated level of play from the QB. Why do you think so many HC positions are being filled by offensive guys? I think Gus Bradley may be one of the only new HC hires that isn't an offense guy. It is also why guys like Jay Gruden are getting serious HC looks while Mike Zimmer, not so much.

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  9. #21
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    The Steelers entire o-line is a major problem for their demise. It's been injured and had poor play even from their #1 pick Pouncey. Their o-line and secondary are their worse areas as even Tebow split the secondary to beat them a year ago.

    But hell, you argued with Film STudy all year on his grades while most of the internet
    went along with him and that silly O-LINE DOUBTERS THREAD stayed on the front page
    most of the entire regular season.


    I said KO was part or the equation with Big Mac on the left side and he got an A- for the
    year plus up the middle with KO, Birk and Yanda. I keep pulling the Denver tape out just to see them destroying their side of the line and Denver had Dumvervil whom we just got.
    Also SF had some of the best LBs in the game we ran over in the first half racking up all those points and Joe finally wore them out by the second half when he ran out the clock
    icing the game with those final FGs from Tucker.

    Don;t forget the tons of SBs and playoffs Brady got into with Matt Light protecting him.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-22-2013 at 05:50 PM.
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  10. #22

    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    JO spoiled us so much at LT that we're now seeing just how much we miss him with
    Oher failing miserably there.

    As for Solo's remarks:

    CASE IN POINT.

    Ravens started winning when McKinnie finally showed up at LT and beat the shit out
    of his side of the line along with KO at LG. They were like Mount Rushmore together.

    This showed how desperate we were until a good LT showed up. JO also had a great LG next to him in Mulitalo.

    CASE IN POINT:

    SF got into the playoffs and SB with a great Joe Staley so there were two very good
    LTs (both making the pro bowl at various times) in SB 47.


    We missed the boat when Mike Nolan jumped in front of Ozzie to grab Joe Staley, whom we just beat in the SB but he is a good LT. The Ravens presser after drafting Grubbs was like a morgue after just missing out on Staley. BTW, that move got Nolan fired when he gave up a future #1 to get Nolan and he couldn't bring in top talent the rest of the year and the team failed. It bit him in the ass.

    CASE IN POINT:

    And don't forget the Squeelers probs that coincided with their o-line probs. They really
    need a good LT. They drafted DeCastro and Adams and still had probs.

    Yup, good LTs are needed as JO proved year after year.
    1. It's funny how you cite Filmstudy in your next few posts. Go look up his postseason grades for McKinnie, then get back to me. McKinnie's playoff performance has been the single most overrated thing about the Ravens in the last 3 months.

    2. Speaking of Super Bowl LTs, how about David Diehl last year? Graded out as the single worst LT in the entire league, I believe.

    3. Pittsburgh made two Super Bowls and won one with a horrific o-line. They do not help your case in any way.

    4. Judging by how poorly our offense played, how did JO prove that you "need" a good LT? Clearly they weren't successful when they had one.
    Last edited by GaTechRavens; 04-22-2013 at 06:06 PM.




  11. #23
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    The Steelers entire o-line is a major problem for their demise. It's been injured and had poor play even from their #1 pick Pouncey. Their o-line and secondary are their worse areas as even Tebow split the secondary to beat them a year ago.
    You're right. Their "demise" probably had nothing to do with injuries...you know...to their starting QB...

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco
    But hell, you argued with Film STudy all year on his grades while most of the internet
    went along with him and that silly O-LINE DOUBTERS THREAD stayed on the front page
    most of the entire regular season.
    You know, I never understood this about you. Someone disagrees with you and then you go into this mode where you not only make shit up, but you do these stealthy little jabs at folks. It's very passive aggressive.

    First of all, I may have disagreed with Filmstudy on certain things, but to sit here and state that I "argued" with him all year is completely absurd and made up. Secondly, that thread was started after a really good performance from Oher at LT, KO at RT, and Ramon Harewood at LG. I think most people on this forum - at that time - were pleasantly surprised by how well the OL seemed to play during the pre-season and the early part of the season. I know I was. Obviously, things change. Finally, even then, I was still adamant about how important the game plan was and how important it was for Cam to game plan for the inadequacies of the offense. I've always felt that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco
    I said KO was part or the equation with Big Mac on the left side and he got an A- for the
    year plus up the middle with KO, Birk and Yanda. I keep pulling the Denver tape out just to see them destroying their side of the line and Denver had Dumvervil whom we just got.
    Also SF had some of the best LBs in the game we ran over in the first half racking up all those points and Joe finally wore them out by the second half when he ran out the clock
    icing the game with those final FGs from Tucker.

    Don;t forget the tons of SBs and playoffs Brady got into with Matt Light protecting him.
    The only thing that I have ever said regarding Oher's performance at LT and McKinnie's performance at LT was - IMO - their success was more based on Jim Caldwell. That is my opinion and the success of other teams without top flight LT's prove my point.

    You can sit there and say all you want that McKinnie graded out as an A- from Filmstudy's evaluations. I'm not arguing that McKinnie played well in the playoffs. I'm simply stating that I think Jim Caldwell's play calling and game planning had the most to do with the playoff success and SB victory, which is why I think that it won't matter who is at LT or RT. Caldwell's game plan and play calling will effectively utilize the talents of the offensive personnel in order to exploit the weaknesses of the opposing defense.
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  12. #24
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by GaTechRavens View Post
    1. It's funny how you cite Filmstudy in your next few posts. Go look up his postseason grades for McKinnie, then get back to me. McKinnie's playoff performance has been the single most overrated thing about the Ravens in the last 3 months.
    When did he play best? His best game was his Wild Card effort against the Colts. He scored a .85 for that game and I’d adjust that to a B+ based on competition. His aggregate score for the playoffs was .74 which I’d adjust to a C+ for the level of competition. He faced Dwight Freeney, Elvis Dumervil, Chandler Jones, and Aldon Smith. I scored him for 8.5 pressures and 2.17 sacks (1 + + 2/3), no other QHs, and no penalties in those 4 games.
    not sure what you're getting at...
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