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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post

    Apples to Oranges.

    JO was a stud LT prospect who was drafted 4th overall to be a stud LT in the NFL. We moved him inside for his rookie season only because we already had a pro-bowl LT on the roster (Tony Jones). Once we traded Tony the following off-season (to Denver for a 2nd-round draft pick, which we used to draft Kim Herring, our starting Safety on the SB 35 team), JO moved back outside - where he was always going to play for the Ravens long-term.

    KO came here as a 2nd rounder projected by most everyone to either move inside to play guard or switch to RT once he got to the pro level.
    And Tom Brady was projected to be a career back up.

    Why do so many people think that players cant get better?

    I'm not comparing where KO is now vs where JO was or what JO became. My point was that JO played guard before he moved to LT. It helped him get a feel for the speed of the NFL among other things. Additionally, how do we know that their intentions with KO were NOT to groom him as the future LT? His downfall was footwork, but losing weight and coaching can help that. Unlike Oher, KO actually has the size and length to play LT (nearly 36" arms).

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  2. #137
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    While I think the fact that LT is one of the highest paid positions on the field lends some credence to the idea that they are overrated, I think being above average at all 5 spots on the line can do wonders for any offense.

    I also think it's a myth that your best pass blocker should be your LT. Depending on the route combination and progressions your blindside can be anywhere. Remember that huge blindside sack Bart Scott had against Roethlisberger in 06? That came from the strongside.




  3. #138

    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    I don't think it's a question of needing a great LT.
    I think it's a question of not having a bad LT.
    And Oher is a bad LT.
    That's why I hope they do re-sign McKinnie, if only as insurance in case KO or whoever they try at LT this season doesn't work out. If there's any legit criticism of Ozzie as GM, it's that the Ravens have never focused on addressing the depth on the O-Line through the draft like they should--banking too often on projects (Hale, Mattison, Cousins, Harewood, Reid) which then forces the team to rely on aged/unreliable stopgaps (Gurode, LeVoir, Williams, McKinnie, even arguably Birk)
    I understand that this is partly a function of the salary cap + the team's regular season record always leaving them drafting late in the first round, but the Ravens have needed an LT since Gaither either got hurt or lazy in what, 2009?




  4. #139
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    i don't think LT is an overrated position - at all. i don't care what anyone says, i'm not gonna blame cam cameron for every offensive woe this team had because having Oher over there at LT was a debacle, play calling or not. sure resign mckinnie. i'm not a fan of the guy but i don't want ko moving over there and i don't want oher playing there so what other choice do the ravens have? sure they could reach out, sign a good RT and slide someone over but i'm so tired of this freaking line being in flux. i want our 100 million qb to be able to be confident that he can have the time to make the decisions he has to make and focus on only that and not on, 'gee am i gonna get plastered this play?,'. just resign the lazy bum and maybe next year we'll have other options.




  5. Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    I think you should ask Joe Flacco this question




  6. #141
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenous1 View Post
    Last time I checked neither the guys who play LT last year perfromed at a "top flight" level actually far from it or we would not be talking bout this right now.

    Last time I checked we won the Super Bowl with said mediocre LT play. McKinney was certainly not "great" in the playoffs he was decent but not great.
    You must have missed those games we lost to Charlie Batch and RG3s backup and getting slaughtered by Denver before McKinney and KO went to the left side of the line and kept
    Dumveril in check during the playoffs beating Denver just a couple of weeks after losing them.

    We don't win the playoffs until the line changes were made and Oher went back to RT where
    he belongs.

    Good idea to ask Joe. He needs protection.

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  7. #142
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    I don't think it's a question of needing a great LT.
    I think it's a question of not having a bad LT.
    And Oher is a bad LT.
    That's why I hope they do re-sign McKinnie, if only as insurance in case KO or whoever they try at LT this season doesn't work out. If there's any legit criticism of Ozzie as GM, it's that the Ravens have never focused on addressing the depth on the O-Line through the draft like they should--banking too often on projects (Hale, Mattison, Cousins, Harewood, Reid) which then forces the team to rely on aged/unreliable stopgaps (Gurode, LeVoir, Williams, McKinnie, even arguably Birk)
    I understand that this is partly a function of the salary cap + the team's regular season record always leaving them drafting late in the first round, but the Ravens have needed an LT since Gaither either got hurt or lazy in what, 2009?
    Well said.




  8. #143
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    I don't think it's a question of needing a great LT.
    I think it's a question of not having a bad LT.
    And Oher is a bad LT.
    That's why I hope they do re-sign McKinnie, if only as insurance in case KO or whoever they try at LT this season doesn't work out. If there's any legit criticism of Ozzie as GM, it's that the Ravens have never focused on addressing the depth on the O-Line through the draft like they should--banking too often on projects (Hale, Mattison, Cousins, Harewood, Reid) which then forces the team to rely on aged/unreliable stopgaps (Gurode, LeVoir, Williams, McKinnie, even arguably Birk)
    I understand that this is partly a function of the salary cap + the team's regular season record always leaving them drafting late in the first round, but the Ravens have needed an LT since Gaither either got hurt or lazy in what, 2009?
    This is a good post.

    Again - teams can win without having elite play from the LT position. Would it be nice? Sure. Absolutely. I'm sure Joe and everyone else on the offense would LOVE to have a Matt Kalil or a Russell Okung at LT.

    That just isn't always possible.

    Teams that don't have an elite LT aren't doomed for failure though. That is the point. If the other players along the OL are solid, then teams can still find offensive success with a weak LT. The sum is greater than the individual parts.
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  9. #144
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    IMO if the rest of the line is rock-solid, you can live with a below-average LT, because you can scheme to lighten his load--chip with the TE or slot receiver, keep a back in to block, move the pocket to the right, etc.

    (Two examples from late in games vs Stealers: Polymullet's strip-sack of Joe that essentially lost that game, and the TD pass to Housh that definitely won that one. Both times The Hair blitzed through the LG-LT gap. The difference? Todd Heap--who'd been kept in to block on the latter play--slid over & stopped #43 cold, giving Joe the half-second he needed to hit TJ with a perfect throw.)

    But if you have problems anywhere else along that line as well, you're perilously close to getting Joe (as the Scots say) kilt.

    Putting Oher at LT last year created 2.5 line issues at a stroke:
    • Below-average LT play
    • Below-average-to-bad LG play
    • Average-to-below-average RT play

    (The last is the half-issue, as KO @RT may not have been a significant downtick from Oher.)

    If GG at center pans out & the Ravens can find (or cobble up) a viable option at RT whose surname doesn't start with O, then KO can stay at LG where he excels, & IMHO Oher @LT wouldn't be nearly the fuster-cluck of 2012.

    But if KO moves to LT, you're still putting Joe at risk unless you find (or cobble up) an above-average replacement @LG--especially since Gino is odds-on to make his share of first-time-starter mistakes no matter how good he eventually becomes.

    (JMO comme toujours.)




  10. #145
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    IMO if the rest of the line is rock-solid, you can live with a below-average LT, because you can scheme to lighten his load--chip with the TE or slot receiver, keep a back in to block, move the pocket to the right, etc.

    (Two examples from late in games vs Stealers: Polymullet's strip-sack of Joe that essentially lost that game, and the TD pass to Housh that definitely won that one. Both times The Hair blitzed through the LG-LT gap. The difference? Todd Heap--who'd been kept in to block on the latter play--slid over & stopped #43 cold, giving Joe the half-second he needed to hit TJ with a perfect throw.)

    But if you have problems anywhere else along that line as well, you're perilously close to getting Joe (as the Scots say) kilt.

    Putting Oher at LT last year created 2.5 line issues at a stroke:
    • Below-average LT play
    • Below-average-to-bad LG play
    • Average-to-below-average RT play

    (The last is the half-issue, as KO @RT may not have been a significant downtick from Oher.)

    If GG at center pans out & the Ravens can find (or cobble up) a viable option at RT whose surname doesn't start with O, then KO can stay at LG where he excels, & IMHO Oher @LT wouldn't be nearly the fuster-cluck of 2012.

    But if KO moves to LT, you're still putting Joe at risk unless you find (or cobble up) an above-average replacement @LG--especially since Gino is odds-on to make his share of first-time-starter mistakes no matter how good he eventually becomes.

    (JMO comme toujours.)
    Good post.

    This is why I suggested that Eric Winston or Tyson Clabo may be decent options. At least with them, the Ravens can leave KO at left guard and increase the level of play at RT.
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  11. #146

    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    The whole point of the OL is to have 5 guys who can function together because the sum total is greater than individual parts. If Oher ends up being the LT, but KO, Gino, Yanda, and the RT end up being studs, then Oher's downfalls become much less apparent and impact the game plan significantly less.
    You've got a point. An OL is an ensemble. Like a band, the more it plays together, the tighter it plays. That alone is why I'd like to see a long term solution at LT (a LT LT, if you will). Let's find a guy at LT (it could be McKinnie or Oher) and let him play there consistently, so that the OL gels. The merry-go-round rotation is a bad way to go on any positions on the OL. The Ravens like OL guys who can go at multiple spots (e.g. Yanda, KO, Harewood, or the guy they just drafted from Wisconsin) which I suppose is good for depth, but I'd like to see as much continuity on our OL as injuries allow.




  12. #147
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    Re: Is having a great LT overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker: M&T Sec 527 View Post
    You've got a point. An OL is an ensemble. Like a band, the more it plays together, the tighter it plays. That alone is why I'd like to see a long term solution at LT (a LT LT, if you will). Let's find a guy at LT (it could be McKinnie or Oher) and let him play there consistently, so that the OL gels. The merry-go-round rotation is a bad way to go on any positions on the OL. The Ravens like OL guys who can go at multiple spots (e.g. Yanda, KO, Harewood, or the guy they just drafted from Wisconsin) which I suppose is good for depth, but I'd like to see as much continuity on our OL as injuries allow.
    Of course we'd all like to see a long term solution @ LT. That's easier said than done though. The Ravens consistently pick at the bottom of the draft, so our chances for a franchise LT are non-existent. Note the top three LTs were chosen within the first four picks. Teams try to keep their top LTs too, with large long-term contracts. That's why the Ravens have to sign guys like McKinnie or move Oher. With the success of the Ravens, we have no other choice... Bc




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