OT - Does anyone here know about HVAC systems?

**wickedsolo** · 04-21-2013, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

I'm a plumber with plenty of experience with tank less water heaters. If you are going that rout, get a gas one. The electric ones draw too much power. Way less efficient (more expensive) than gas.

Interesting, because Consumer Report says otherwise...

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**wickedsolo** · 04-21-2013, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by RAPHENS

I have a 2700 sq ft home. Built in 1981. 2 zones. We were paying $400/mo. year-round (so about $5k per year) to heat our home. Fucking brutal. oil fire water furnace too. We had heat pumps as well for when it wasn't freezing, but in this climate, that's not all that often.

after 2 winters we converted the 2 oil furnaces to gas. had gas line installed. BGE charged 1k to run the line. after lots of searching, I found a decent HVAC contractor to work with. finding the right guy to do the install was by far the hardest part. put in the 2 new furnaces. replaced 2 heat pumps with a/c units. after we burned the rest of the oil in our tank, we put in a gas fired water heater. Right now, with financing, my monthly payment is the same as it was with oil (so my prior monthly payment for heat alone is the same as my new heating payment plus payment for financing the new system). I will make my money back w/in 3 years. of course, a large part of that is the new higher efficiency system.

In short, gas is cheap compared to oil right now. Heat pumps do not operate efficiently in this climate during the winter months. Find a contractor who will calculate the proper load that your house requires and go from there. The contractor that you want will measure every opening in your house, duct size, etc. He will spend about 2 hours in your home and then have to get back to you with the proper equipment size/BTUs, etc.

DO NOT TRUST A CONTRACTOR WHO DOES NOT DO A PROPER LOAD CALC. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. IF THEY DO NOT DO A PROPER LOAD CALC THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY GUESSING. OLD OIL FURNACES ARE NOTORIOUSLY OVERSIZED WHICH LEADS TO INEFFICIENT HEATING. GOOD LUCK!

Good info.

We have a gas line to the house (fireplace is gas)...and we were thinking about eventually going for a gas range in thw kitchen ...maybe that is something we should look at...

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**wickedsolo** · 04-21-2013, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Oil is going to cost a lot more than $1,000 to $2,000 a season. Oil this winter cost me around $700 a month and I don't live in a large house. Oil heat sucks.

See, that is what I am afraid of. I dont want those types of bills...granted, MD winters (lately) are not Connecticut winters.

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**ballhawk** · 04-21-2013, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Interesting, because Consumer Report says otherwise...

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Electric w/h's are cheaper but the operating cost is about 15% more, which definitely adds up over time. They also have a better flow rate (8 gpm to as low as 4 gpm) during the winter when its really cold. All in all, its probably a draw when you factor in the cost of the unit and installation. Either way its much better than your standard tank variety. If I was going to put one in my house, I would go with gas.

**RavenScallywag** · 04-21-2013, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Good info.

We have a gas line to the house (fireplace is gas)...and we were thinking about eventually going for a gas range in thw kitchen ...maybe that is something we should look at...

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Oil won't be drastically cheaper, but it is a more stable market. We were trying to switch to gas when we replaced our boiler, but our lines from BGE had been abandoned over 10 years ago, and in order for them to retrofit the old line, they would've basically had to dig a new line anyway for over $1200, and where they had to dig was underneath a porch, so I think it would've ended up more expensive. In the end, we were looking at costs of almost 1800 more to switch to natural gas, so we just decided to stay with oil. If those lines had been useable though....

**Shorebird** · 04-21-2013, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

Electric w/h's are cheaper but the operating cost is about 15% more, which definitely adds up over time. They also have a better flow rate (8 gpm to as low as 4 gpm) during the winter when its really cold. All in all, its probably a draw when you factor in the cost of the unit and installation. Either way its much better than your standard tank variety. If I was going to put one in my house, I would go with gas.

I have owned both in two different houses and would whole-heartedly agree that the gas tankless heaters are far superior to the electric ones, for all the reasons you have already stated. But the flow rate is the biggest reason. At only 4 GPM, the electric just doesn't cut it. If you're in the shower and someone runs water elsewhere, there isn't enough flow to keep up with demand. Also, if you have a tub, you can't fill the tub but at about 1/4 flow because the tub faucet would dump the water in the tub faster than the heater could keep up. It would take my wife 20 minutes to draw a bath. The gas one I have now is far superior.

**GOTA** · 04-21-2013, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

See, that is what I am afraid of. I dont want those types of bills...granted, MD winters (lately) are not Connecticut winters.

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Welcome to home ownership. Unfortunately you never know what can happen.

**Strange Bru** · 04-21-2013, 11:44 AM

Home Depot does give free in-home estimates for HVAC repair or replacement. That way they can tell you if it's a repair or replacement issue.

**JAB1985** · 04-21-2013, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Interesting, because Consumer Report says otherwise...

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I design pump stations for the county. We use those electric ones but only because the county requested. Gas are far superior. The electric tankless dont seem to get up to tempature as well on top of using that much more energy.

Since you have gas already, that would be my recommendation. And really unless you want to spend the upfront money, a gas tank heater will be fine and more efficient than any electric.

**wickedsolo** · 04-21-2013, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Shorebird

I have owned both in two different houses and would whole-heartedly agree that the gas tankless heaters are far superior to the electric ones, for all the reasons you have already stated. But the flow rate is the biggest reason. At only 4 GPM, the electric just doesn't cut it. If you're in the shower and someone runs water elsewhere, there isn't enough flow to keep up with demand. Also, if you have a tub, you can't fill the tub but at about 1/4 flow because the tub faucet would dump the water in the tub faster than the heater could keep up. It would take my wife 20 minutes to draw a bath. The gas one I have now is far superior.

When did you have the electric tankless? Could they have improved?

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**HoustonRaven** · 04-21-2013, 03:01 PM

I had an electric water heater in my house in Fells. Regretted it from the moment I bought it. Water never really got hot in the winter and it sent my bill through the roof.

If you have a gas line, make sure all of your appliances are also gas -- dryer, water heater, stove, etc.

Way more efficient, cheaper than electric and you can still run them in a power outage.