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  1. #13
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    Like Sir, I too believe in God but no particular religion.

    Too much evidence in nature and, oddly enough, in science for me to think otherwise.

    Organized religion, to me, is the vein attempt by the finite to explain the infinite. By simple definition, we cannot begin to understand or explain the infinite.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #14

    Re: How can anyone still believe in God

    One of my students asked why God didn't perform miracles anymore, since they were such a huge part of the Bible. I thought about an old song and used that to explain my views.

    There's an old Ray Steven's song called, "The Mississippi Squirrel Revival". This kid goes to church and is showing off a squirrel he caught to his buddy. The squirrel gets loose during service and hilarity ensues. The last verse ends, "Well you've heard the Bible story I guess, how He parted the waters of Moses to pass. Oh the miracles God has wrought in this ol' world. But the one I'll remember to my dying day is how he put that Church back on the narrow way with a half-crazed Mississippi squirrel."

    God showed us miracles back then because we didn't know about Him. The Christian religion is based on faith, and if God were going around sending plagues of locust, or splitting the seas every other day, then we wouldn't have faith. See, I can touch my computer monitor. I don't have faith that it's there. I have proof. I think the miracles God works now are less obvious. Like the German scientist working on the atomic bomb. They missed a simple calculation at the very beginning and that's why the good guys were able to win that war. That, to me, is a miracle because folks who work with radioactive material tend to be the sort of anal retentive types who double and triple check their figures.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
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  3. #15
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    Re: How can anyone still believe in God

    God performs miracles and heals every day, just like in Jesus time. The book of James talks about divine healing and even shows how to do it with specific steps. In my own case I came within 3 days of dying 8 years ago via an infection that went straight thru me. The family and church members prayed daily. The pastor visited me several times and performed the steps according to James and I was healed.

    Millions of Christians are healed daily and not necessarily at these shows you see on TV.

    God has never stopped performing miracles. Israel is another example. Just like God protected Israel in the Bible times he is still protecting Israel today like in the Yom Kipper war in the 70s when they were attacked. The tiny country is attacked on all sides but God still saved them.

    Of course God uses the US but that is one of his tools.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  4. #16
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    Re: How can anyone still believe in God

    As far as religions go, it's a personal thing. I'm non-denominational and an independent Christian.
    I haven't been a member of a church since 92 . Our church of 2,000 members was split twice and went down to 300 after a pastor lied about his true doctrinal beliefs and tried to change ours. A guy after that came in and built it back up and the next guy came in and slammed a book down in front of the deacons and said this is the way we're doing things from now on and anyone that doesn't like it can leave. We'll still get 800 more. A lot of us left and he never got those 800 members. So much for the book.

    I've been going to a fundamental Methodist Church for 5 years in Bel Air and was mad when he slammed the Baptists. He even criticized the Christmas production at the Baptist Church two lights up the road and said we don't have big productions. We worship.

    A lot of people get saved from that production. If he sent his people there they might get saved too.

    It was funny but I went to Grace Fellowship Church for 5 years where former Baltimore Colt Joe Erhmann of their famous sack pack is on their pastorial staff. That church was always slamming the Baptists in their little dramas they have. What was funny is Grace is a Baptist Church in doctrine. They believe straight down the Baptist line including baptism by emersion and they don't even know it. They used to baptize people in Stan White's swimming pool.

    I always laughed at them because all their pastors came from Dallas Theological Seminary and that had Baptist doctrine including the end times positions led by Woolvard and Ryrie. It's moved some over the years away from them.

    So the religions are always dissing each other while keeping the divisions amongst them alive. The pastor in the church I grew up didn't diss other religions and he said there will be no gay bashing here but the other religions still do it.

    Not sure if I'm staying in that Methodist Church or not. I'll let it slide this time before leveling the pastor with how he's creating dis-harmony from his own pulpit.


    But accepting Christ as Lord and Savior is a personal thing and has nothing to do with the church other than that's where you might get saved and grow. It's not the church that saves you. It's God and he uses it to do just that.

    It's the religions that screw things up.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-07-2013 at 03:59 PM.
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  5. #17
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    I think the most logical thing is to acknowledge the difference between organized religion, religion, and faith.

    As someone who enjoys theology and history, I think one could reasonably argue that the invention of organized religion came through political aspirations and an effective way for income. I realize that sounds rather cynical, but historically men of power have always used organized religion for their own gain.

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  6. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I think the most logical thing is to acknowledge the difference between organized religion, religion, and faith.

    As someone who enjoys theology and history, I think one could reasonably argue that the invention of organized religion came through political aspirations and an effective way for income. I realize that sounds rather cynical, but historically men of power have always used organized religion for their own gain.

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Forum Runner
    Great point.

    Christianity, not just Catholicism, owes a good deal to emperor Constantine.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  7. #19
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    Re: How can anyone still believe in God

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Trap has a point, ultimately this debate comes down to faith. No amount of logic will convince the faithful that god is not there, and no amount of exhorting will convince a skeptic to take it on faith.
    What's the old saying?

    Something like... for those that believe no proof is necessary, for those that don't no proof is possible. That's close to it anyway.

    It does come down to faith though, in a very simple explanation of why do I believe in God? All this something didn't come from nothing.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  8. #20
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    In reference to Darb's post on miracles, I am reminded of a little throw away line from Pulp Fiction.

    Jules is talking about miracles, saying you can't judge them on merit. He uses the example of "God finding your car keys". There's a lot of substance behind that line and it ties into my beliefs.

    Me locating my car keys in of itself is trivial. But what if the 20 minutes I took searching my house for those keys caused me to avoid a 10 car pile up on the same road I take to work every day?

    Sometimes miracles are not tangible to finite beings. Just because you cannot see them doesn't mean they are not occurring everyday and in ways we cannot fathom.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post

    What's the old saying?

    Something like... for those that believe no proof is necessary, for those that don't no proof is possible. That's close to it anyway.

    It does come down to faith though, in a very simple explanation of why do I believe in God? All this something didn't come from nothing.
    I always appreciated a lot of the pagan beliefs. Life was a cycle. You were born from mother, mother earth nourished you, watched you grow, and when it was your time to go you returned to mother earth.

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  10. #22
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    I'm reminded of my philosophy classes now.

    Any of you atheists ever consider Pascal's Wager?

    If you truly believe there's no God, then life, by definition, is nothing more than trivial events and simple pleasures until you die.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #23
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    Re: How can anyone still believe in God

    Speaking of history and the church, here's how Constantine saved the church and incorporated into the state and it became the Roman Catholic Church. Persecutions of the Christians stopped and he brought them into the gov't and returned confiscated lands and gave lands to the Catholic Church as its wealth was created.

    THE CHURCH IS POOR AND HUMBLE. ST PETER.

    THE CHURCH IS NO LONGER POOR. CATHOLIC POPE.

    AND THE CHURCH IS NO LONGER HUMBLE. ST THOMAS ACQINAS TO POPE.

    Caveat - this is a wiki link but it seems spot on.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constan...d_Christianity
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  12. #24
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    Re: How can anyone still believe in God

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Speaking of history and the church, here's how Constantine saved the church and incorporated into the state and it became the Roman Catholic Church. Persecutions of the Christians stopped and he brought them into the gov't and returned confiscated lands and gave lands to the Catholic Church as its wealth was created.

    THE CHURCH IS POOR AND HUMBLE. ST PETER.

    THE CHURCH IS NO LONGER POOR. CATHOLIC POPE.

    AND THE CHURCH IS NO LONGER HUMBLE. ST THOMAS ACQINAS TO POPE.

    Caveat - this is a wiki link but it seems spot on.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constan...d_Christianity
    Constantine wasn't even a Christian IIRC. He just went along with it to unite the empires.
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