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  1. #16
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out



    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I dont think its a choice. its going to be a spectacle regardless. Much like Jackie Robinson just played baseball (but obviously couldnt hide that he was black), the subject itself makes it impossible to just "be".
    We'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess.

    If there is nothing wrong with something, you don't go making a big deal out it. When you do, it calls attention to it and makes people go, "why did they do that, what's wrong with X?"
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  2. #17

    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    The media calls attebtion and makes a big deal out of it. Just like Ayanbadejo got asked questions in certainn ways to get a story yesterday; a la "Nfl player claims he hasn't beaten his wife for over 2 years" It is a story and will be one until several players comeout. Then the media will create some other story line to pursue.. Smart to have several guys come out at once. The union seems to be doing well here for a change.




  3. #18
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    I hope they come out. The repercussions of this extend far beyond just the gay community. How many kids are beaten up on the playground and called, "faggot" while it's happening? I remember in middle school we used to have a game called "Smear the Queer" where basically we singled out one kid who was "different" and all tried to tackle/chase him around.

    If FOOTBALL PLAYERS, the manliest, toughest men possible, come out and say it's ok to be gay, that it's ok to be different - it's just in general a great positive step towards creating a general culture of acceptance, rather than one of exclusivity and terrorized conformity.




  4. #19
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Isn't it a safe bet at this point that Ayanbadejo is gay? Not that there is anything wrong with that...




  5. #20
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Isn't it a safe bet at this point that Ayanbadejo is gay? Not that there is anything wrong with that...
    You're on. $50,000.00 says he's married with kids. I will send you a link to my paypal account.




  6. #21
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    You're on. $50,000.00 says he's married with kids. I will send you a link to my paypal account.
    He could still be gay.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #22

    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    We'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess.

    If there is nothing wrong with something, you don't go making a big deal out it. When you do, it calls attention to it and makes people go, "why did they do that, what's wrong with X?"
    Tim Hardaway: "I hate gay people."

    Chris Culliver wouldn't accept openly gay teammate.

    Garrison Heast: "I don't want any faggots on my team."

    I think it's safe to say it's necessary to draw attention to the issue until the public mindset is changed.




  8. #23
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by mfdoom42 View Post
    Tim Hardaway: "I hate gay people."

    Chris Culliver wouldn't accept openly gay teammate.

    Garrison Heast: "I don't want any faggots on my team."

    I think it's safe to say it's necessary to draw attention to the issue until the public mindset is changed.
    And you think this is the way public mindset is changed?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  9. #24
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    And you think this is the way public mindset is changed?
    Yes. Getting used to things is how change works. Just like Jackie Robinson playing baseball didn't turn white people black, or result in the end of the world, so too will finding out that specific NFL players are homosexual won't cause straight people to turn gay, or end the world.

    Likewise, the world didn't end when Jews started going to Harvard, or when Catholics and Protestants were allowed to intermarry. But it took people being out there in front of it, publicly and openly, for attitudes to begin changing. People didn't all just shrug their shoulders at once and say 'OK."

    It shouldn't matter, but it does, because people who hate homosexuals make it matter. They make it matter by physically assaulting, threatening and generally treating them horribly. Homosexuals have been forced into hiding for centuries, and in many societies today. If it weren't for all of THAT, then no they wouldn't need to publicly "come out."

    The fact that people feel like this is being "shoved in their faces" shows that those people prefer to keep it like it was -- they want their gays in the closet. The gays, however, are tired of staying there, and I don't blame them. If I had to hide my wife everywhere I went and not tell anyone I was married or go to a restaurant with her without worrying whether some skinhead asshole was going to break a bottle over my head, I'd get pretty fucking tired of it too. And at some point, I think people of like persuasion would be sorely tempted to get together and say you know what, screw this, we're not living like this anymore.

    Pretty much what happens when socieities systematically marginalize groups of people, or worse. Is it any wonder that Israel, for example, defends itself so aggressively? When you put up with as much shit as they have, you kind of stop caring what other people think, and do what you need to do, to be who you are and not have to take other people's shit about it.




  10. #25
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Yes. Getting used to things is how change works. Just like Jackie Robinson playing baseball didn't turn white people black, or result in the end of the world, so too will finding out that specific NFL players are homosexual won't cause straight people to turn gay, or end the world.
    Yes it is how it works. But letting it happen IMO is the way to do it. Not have a coming out party, if anyone thinks that is going to change anyone's mind who currently is not very accepting of homosexuality, they're not being realistic.

    Did Jackie Robinson have a press conference and say I am going to be the first black baseball player in MLB and this is how it's going to be, deal with it?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  11. #26
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Flipping Birdie View Post
    This belongs in the non-Ravens football forum. Not the politics forum.
    It belongs in the garbage can...




  12. #27
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Did Jackie Robinson have a press conference and say I am going to be the first black baseball player in MLB and this is how it's going to be, deal with it?
    It's a little different because you can't discretely be black. When a black player stepped onto the field at an MLB stadium it was pretty apparent that there was a black player playing in MLB. When a gay player steps out into the NFL field people can't see that.

    And while there may be a certain number of people who are truly committed to their prejudices, there are also people who are just careless and have never taken much time to think about their prejudices. These people can and likely will change if a number of players come out gay in a highly publicized way and get a sufficient amount of support from the media, fans, and other players. But it often takes a sufficient amount of buzz or a striking enough event to wake someone like this up.




  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Yes. Getting used to things is how change works. Just like Jackie Robinson playing baseball didn't turn white people black, or result in the end of the world, so too will finding out that specific NFL players are homosexual won't cause straight people to turn gay, or end the world.

    Likewise, the world didn't end when Jews started going to Harvard, or when Catholics and Protestants were allowed to intermarry. But it took people being out there in front of it, publicly and openly, for attitudes to begin changing. People didn't all just shrug their shoulders at once and say 'OK."

    It shouldn't matter, but it does, because people who hate homosexuals make it matter. They make it matter by physically assaulting, threatening and generally treating them horribly. Homosexuals have been forced into hiding for centuries, and in many societies today. If it weren't for all of THAT, then no they wouldn't need to publicly "come out."

    The fact that people feel like this is being "shoved in their faces" shows that those people prefer to keep it like it was -- they want their gays in the closet. The gays, however, are tired of staying there, and I don't blame them. If I had to hide my wife everywhere I went and not tell anyone I was married or go to a restaurant with her without worrying whether some skinhead asshole was going to break a bottle over my head, I'd get pretty fucking tired of it too. And at some point, I think people of like persuasion would be sorely tempted to get together and say you know what, screw this, we're not living like this anymore.

    Pretty much what happens when socieities systematically marginalize groups of people, or worse. Is it any wonder that Israel, for example, defends itself so aggressively? When you put up with as much shit as they have, you kind of stop caring what other people think, and do what you need to do, to be who you are and not have to take other people's shit about it.
    Agreed 100%
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  14. #29

    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Yes. Getting used to things is how change works. Just like Jackie Robinson playing baseball didn't turn white people black, or result in the end of the world, so too will finding out that specific NFL players are homosexual won't cause straight people to turn gay, or end the world.

    Likewise, the world didn't end when Jews started going to Harvard, or when Catholics and Protestants were allowed to intermarry. But it took people being out there in front of it, publicly and openly, for attitudes to begin changing. People didn't all just shrug their shoulders at once and say 'OK."

    It shouldn't matter, but it does, because people who hate homosexuals make it matter. They make it matter by physically assaulting, threatening and generally treating them horribly. Homosexuals have been forced into hiding for centuries, and in many societies today. If it weren't for all of THAT, then no they wouldn't need to publicly "come out."

    The fact that people feel like this is being "shoved in their faces" shows that those people prefer to keep it like it was -- they want their gays in the closet. The gays, however, are tired of staying there, and I don't blame them. If I had to hide my wife everywhere I went and not tell anyone I was married or go to a restaurant with her without worrying whether some skinhead asshole was going to break a bottle over my head, I'd get pretty fucking tired of it too. And at some point, I think people of like persuasion would be sorely tempted to get together and say you know what, screw this, we're not living like this anymore.

    Pretty much what happens when socieities systematically marginalize groups of people, or worse. Is it any wonder that Israel, for example, defends itself so aggressively? When you put up with as much shit as they have, you kind of stop caring what other people think, and do what you need to do, to be who you are and not have to take other people's shit about it.
    pretty much what i was trying to say, but you summed it up much better.
    -JAB




  15. #30
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    Re: 4 Gay Players Might Come Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus View Post
    And while there may be a certain number of people who are truly committed to their prejudices, there are also people who are just careless and have never taken much time to think about their prejudices. These people can and likely will change if a number of players come out gay in a highly publicized way and get a sufficient amount of support from the media, fans, and other players. But it often takes a sufficient amount of buzz or a striking enough event to wake someone like this up.
    This is kind of what I am saying. People who have this prejudice aren't going to change their mind. People who aren't prejudice don't need their mind changed.

    IMO I don't think it will change anyone's mind. Just my opinion though, I've been wrong before.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




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