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Thread: McKinnie ?

  1. #76
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    Re: McKinnie ?



    Yeah, I'm tired of seeing Oher playing LT, enough of that already. He belongs at RT and probably would be even better at guard, but the Ravens will never move him inside. Still, he is a decent RT, and I wouldn't be against extending him IF and only IF he's playing RT.

    I still think the best option is to bring McKinnie back on a one year deal, because he is clearly our best option, and would allow everyone to excel at their natural positions.




  2. #77
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    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Van Cleef View Post
    Castillo seems to be becoming this mythical figure that can instantly make OL players better.
    Don't stretch it out of proportion. Caldwell took over for Cam and the Ravens offense got new life. Perhaps (?) Castillo can do something Moeller can't and the Oline will benefit from it... Bc




  3. #78
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    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    There IS no "reasoning". At NO point has Oher EVER played better than McKinnie. EVER.
    Did you not see the downward trend in how he graded out through the playoffs? He was 1 game away from being Oher on one of Oher's worse days by the Superbowl. He doesn't condition himself to where he can keep up his performance and as he gets older, the cliff gets closer and closer from the start of the race.

    It's been said that the season is a marathon, but McKinnie treats it like a 2K Fun Run.




  4. #79
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    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities View Post
    Did you not see the downward trend in how he graded out through the playoffs? He was 1 game away from being Oher on one of Oher's worse days by the Superbowl. He doesn't condition himself to where he can keep up his performance and as he gets older, the cliff gets closer and closer from the start of the race.

    It's been said that the season is a marathon, but McKinnie treats it like a 2K Fun Run.


    This.

    If McKinnie could sustain his level of play throughout a entire season then signing him would be a no brainer as some have said. Then again if anyone had any confidence he could do that he would likely be signed by now. Thinking McKinnie is going to show up in shape and ready to go is boderline delusional based on his history.
    A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,
    -Ray Lewis




  5. #80

    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities View Post
    Did you not see the downward trend in how he graded out through the playoffs? He was 1 game away from being Oher on one of Oher's worse days by the Superbowl. He doesn't condition himself to where he can keep up his performance and as he gets older, the cliff gets closer and closer from the start of the race.

    It's been said that the season is a marathon, but McKinnie treats it like a 2K Fun Run.
    On McKinnie's WORST day he's STILL better than Oher, okay? He played the whole season in 2011 without any major malfunctions. So no, I'm not buying your "theory". (And that's all it is; it's not "reasoning", it's your personal theory is all it is.)




  6. #81
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    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    On McKinnie's WORST day he's STILL better than Oher, okay? He played the whole season in 2011 without any major malfunctions. So no, I'm not buying your "theory". (And that's all it is; it's not "reasoning", it's your personal theory is all it is.)
    It's theory that as you get older, you need to work harder to stay in shape?

    It's theory that McKinnie hasn't put in the necessary work off season in the past?

    It's theory that his grades progressively declined in each of his 4 post season games?

    These aren't theories, these are truths.




  7. #82

    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    Can't remember where I saw this, but: Someone noted (or opined) that a large part of Oher's inadequacy at LT was technical--he has a tendency to attack the defender in front of him & is not good at riding a rusher around & behind the QB to form the pocket.

    If that's the case (& anyone who wants to argue the contrary should have at it), KO at LG isn't going to help much--when Oher is beaten (which will happen often with NFL-level rushers) the pocket will collapse before Joe has a chance to step up, no matter how well the interior of the line plays.

    Can Oher's technique be corrected? Old(er) dog, new tricks--not promising, but Castillo may be able to help. Can KO play a technically-superior LT? Possibly; again, Castillo has made some interesting noises in that direction. But let's not exaggerate what coaching can do--his initials are JC but it does not follow that he can walk on water, raise the dead, or turn any given journeyman OL into a bunch of HOFers.

    McKinnie on a short-term incentive-laden contract may end up the least unpalatable option for the current season, and the Ravens are IMO quite right not to burn bridges with him.

    That said, they need a long-term solution. Maybe that means drafting a project or two this year & giving them the season to develop; maybe that means a trade; maybe that means packaging some picks this year for a high first-rounder this year or next (not something I've seen floated but certainly possible depending on who's coming out in 2014) to snag a day-1 starter. But doing nothing is not an option if the Ravens want to remain perennial contenders.
    Despite his "great attitude" and "incredible work ethic" I have not seen ONE IOTA of progress out of Oher. I still believe his rookie season was his finest. I still believe he has almost straight-line regressed since then, taking into consideration that the left is harder then the right.

    I see no reason to believe that hsi technique and/or results at LT will ever improve. Between his mini little T-rex arms, his ingrained desire to body his man up, and his faster then the speed of light first step(a nice way to say he constantly false starts) I just fail to see LT when I watch him play. He is not only poor agaisnt the outside speed rush, he is also poor when his man sets up for an outside speed rush and spins inside, a la Dwight Freeney.




  8. #83

    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities View Post
    It's theory that as you get older, you need to work harder to stay in shape?

    It's theory that McKinnie hasn't put in the necessary work off season in the past?

    It's theory that his grades progressively declined in each of his 4 post season games?

    These aren't theories, these are truths.
    I didn't notice a significant drop off in McKinnies play throughout the postseason. What I saw was a Ravens OL that effectively neutralized some of the best pass rushing defenses in the NFL and gave Flacco the protection to operate as an elite QB.Something we very rarely saw with Oher playing LT.




  9. #84

    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities View Post
    These aren't theories, these are truths.
    No, they're not. They're your manipulation of certain statistics and thoughts to try to prove your point is all they are. It's not a FACT that ALL players necessarily have to work harder as they get older. Siragusa didn't. JO didn't either. And THOSE are FACTS. And they'll be the first ones to tell you that. It all depends on the player in question, and on the position they play. In essence, McKinnie got the year off last year, so he's basically got as much tread on the tires this year as last. And your other "truths" are hardly "truths" at all, especially your notion that Oher could fill in for McKinnie and do as good a job as McKinnie, when EVERY reality points to the fact that he can't.
    Last edited by RavensRule21215; 04-05-2013 at 04:43 PM.




  10. #85
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    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    No, they're not. They're your manipulation of certain statistics and thoughts to try to prove your point is all they are. It's not a FACT that ALL players necessarily have to work harder as they get older. Siragusa didn't. JO didn't either. And THOSE are FACTS. And they'll be the first ones to tell you that. It all depends on the player in question, and on the position they play. In essence, McKinnie got the year off last year, so he's basically got as much tread on the tires this year as last. And your other "truths" are hardly "truths" at all, especially your notion that Oher could fill in for McKinnie and do as good a job as McKinnie, when EVERY reality points to the fact that he can't.
    That's you not even knowing what I was actually saying. Go back and read what I said. Better yet, I'll post it here.

    "If there's a guy they can think will be lights out at LG in the draft, and there's no option for a starting LT value wise, I'd rather roll with the new guard and KO at LT than McKinnie. McKinnie just doesn't put in the work needed, and especially as he's getting older, he just can't hang for an entire season. You could see in the playoff run where he was really good in the first game and then each progressive game, he got worse. If you go into the 2013 season with McKinnie at LT, by game 5 or 6, he won't be holding his own...to the point where Oher would actually be a better option at LT. If they think a guy like Faulk could be up to speed at that point, fine, plan to start McKinnie for a few games then sit his ass on the bench, but you can't roll into the season expecting McKinnie to give you anything more than 4 or 5 starts. "




  11. #86
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    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TDL1000 View Post
    I didn't notice a significant drop off in McKinnies play throughout the postseason. What I saw was a Ravens OL that effectively neutralized some of the best pass rushing defenses in the NFL and gave Flacco the protection to operate as an elite QB.Something we very rarely saw with Oher playing LT.
    That had a lot more to do with KO combining with Birk and Yanda to provide a solid pocket for Joe to step up into rather than McKinnie playing all that great.




  12. #87
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    Re: McKinnie ?

    This somewhat reminds me of the national media's take on Flacco. Those guys got it in their minds that Flacco was a certain kind of player and played at a certain level, and no matter how much they were shown to be wrong, they stuck to their guns and just kept saying it. There are a lot of posters who have that take with both Oher and McKinnie - whether they are positive or negative in their view.




  13. #88

    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by alien bird View Post
    This somewhat reminds me of the national media's take on Flacco. Those guys got it in their minds that Flacco was a certain kind of player and played at a certain level, and no matter how much they were shown to be wrong, they stuck to their guns and just kept saying it. There are a lot of posters who have that take with both Oher and McKinnie - whether they are positive or negative in their view.
    So my opinion of Oher is tainted since I didn't liek him in the draft?

    It couldn't be that PFF graded him out as the third worst tackle in football last year(only ahead of the pair in ARi)
    It also couln't have to do with the fact that that particular pair of tackles were the only ones in football credited with more pressures or sacks.
    Yup, he must be great, and I just have it in my mind he sucks. Sorry guys.




  14. #89
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    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by alien bird View Post
    This somewhat reminds me of the national media's take on Flacco. Those guys got it in their minds that Flacco was a certain kind of player and played at a certain level, and no matter how much they were shown to be wrong, they stuck to their guns and just kept saying it. There are a lot of posters who have that take with both Oher and McKinnie - whether they are positive or negative in their view.
    I think that's a fair assessment.




  15. #90

    Re: McKinnie ?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities View Post
    That had a lot more to do with KO combining with Birk and Yanda to provide a solid pocket for Joe to step up into rather than McKinnie playing all that great.
    I thought McKinnie and Oher effectively neutralized Miller and Dumervil in the playoff game. Only 1 sack and 3 hits on Flacco for the game is a nice job by the entire OL.I agree KO and Yanda are a nice duo at OG and should remain there.




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