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  1. #31
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    Re: Bernard Pollard responds



    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Supposedly, that meeting that was characterized as a "near mutiny" was where Harbaugh encouraged players to speak freely. Pollard was the player rep, and was elected to that post by his fellow players. I would think that he would have been a member of that "leadership team". I just think this sets a very bad precedent. The message being conveyed is shut up, collect your check, and don't play hurt. If the team fails, then so be it.
    lol yea right. i mean i don't know what happened behind the scenes anymore than anyone else, but i saw plenty of footage of the past season where harbs was CONSTANTLY in many different players' ears getting advice from them and asking what they thought of the situation. that's why there was chemistry, that's why the team ended up so tight. or at least that was part of it. it didn't look to me like he ever shut anybody out of his ear or screamed at a player who dared darken his office doorway.




  2. #32
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    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    I don't know. The main weird thing is they gave him an extension last year. They knew what they had in terms of his performance on the field. Did his performance really change THAT much that they go from giving him an extension to dumping him? Or were there external forces at work?

    I think it was a combination of both but it is unusual for Ozzie to cut a guy the year after giving him an extension. Where theres smoke I think there has to be SOME fire.
    It's possible that they never intended to honor the three years they signed him to. If I recall correctly when they signed him to an extension his original 2012 base salary of $1.5 million was cut in half -- the roster bonus and prorated portion from the original contract stayed the same. So they did get some cap relief by extending him, and may have always held out the option of cutting him after one year, after they were able to assess their other options.

    Afterall, they had just lost Zbikowski and Nakamura, and then drafted Christian Thompson as a hard hitting safety in the mold of Pollard. Perhaps they were on the fence about Pollard, but saw the chance to get a little cap relief last year by extending him and then see how they felt about their depth chart at the end of 2012.

    It's kind of like Reed in Houston. Does his three year contract mean the Texans believe he can be productive for three more seasons? Probably not.

    I'm not dismissing entirely the idea that he was difficult in the locker room. But the Ravens usually give themselves options A, B, C and D when it comes to the roster.




  3. #33
    I think it's a combination of ability, salary and locker room issues.

    I've always been one of the guys that thought Pollard was a solid safety, but not much more. IMHO, reveling in a guys flashy hard hits is like trying to make a case that an NBA center is a really good defender due to flashy blocks.

    Calling it a "Mutiny" is overkill, but I also think there were and are locker room issues with him...nobody that has his salary and is as good as some like to make him out to be has 4 different teams before he's 29.

    I think it's just a combination of things...and unlike a guy like Reed, Pollard isn't/wasn't good enough to "get away" with whatever the issues were.


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    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  4. #34

    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    Quote Originally Posted by Purpleguy View Post
    If the mutiny resulted in Bisciotti getting wind that damn near every player on the team hated Cam, thus making Bisciotti force Harbaugh to fire him a few weeks later, then it was the best thing to ever happen to this team.

    Harbaugh was never going to fire "Coach Cam". Just watch all of the mic'ed up stuff. Every other clip is Harbaugh patting Cam on the back with a "great call, coach Cam". Harbaugh gave him game balls for Christ's sake. He was never going to fire him, until Bisciotti put his own ass on the line. Obviously Harbaugh is still a little sore about losing his bestest bestie.
    Sore and you? Who has to live with this underrated special teams coach for how many years.

    LOL still believe the owner asked Harbaugh to can him, sigh.

    How many owners has asked his HC to can his OC with a 9-5 record? As I recall this is the first time it ever happend, that late in the season.

    John Harbaugh would be a very rich man if he was let go.. even at 9-7, and no POs and SB.

    My take.. a combination of lack of performence on offense, not healthy chemestry - especially Joe-Cam, possible others things happend but hardly from Joe, Steve or Ozzie.

    Come on Caldwell with no playcalling experience was not a sure thing succes.

    Again we have this underrated special teams coach who has no clue. Nope not buying it.. our players is not that talented that they can win so many games year in year out despite a horrible HC.




  5. #35
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    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Supposedly....
    Great word for speculating, and that's what just about everything is in this thread - all speculation. Unfortunately, some people take speculation and run with at and before you know it, it somehow morphs into gospel truth.

    I'm more apt to side with the view that Shas put in that long post above. Good reading right there.




  6. #36
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    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    I don't know why he was released, and I know he wasn't the best in coverage, but he was my favorite player to watch on the D last year. I hope whoever replaces him, watches and learns Pollard's punch technique. Every time I seen him go to make a tackle, he punched the ball. He cause quite a few fumbles and I hope we can continue doing that with his replacement.
    ::Flacco Superstar::





  7. #37

    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    If there are two or more people involved in any undertaking there is politics involved. There are right and wrong ways to play politics and get the outcome you desire. Playing team politics the wrong way gets you off the team - even if the outcome of your position was what was desired.

    Pollard & Reed played the political game wrong and are gone.




  8. #38
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    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi16 View Post
    If there are two or more people involved in any undertaking there is politics involved. There are right and wrong ways to play politics and get the outcome you desire. Playing team politics the wrong way gets you off the team - even if the outcome of your position was what was desired.

    Pollard & Reed played the political game wrong and are gone.
    I would say there are no rules in politics, except you have to have the juice. If you have the votes, then you can press your agenda no matter how ugly it gets. If you don't have the right backing lined up, you better not stick your neck out.

    What I'm trying to say is that there are players who have the juice -- Flacco, Rice, Yanda, Ngata, Suggs, Webb. They aren't going to cut those guys right now, so those guys can press for an agenda when the players need clout. Pollard didn't have the juice. So if he was a bit of a cancer, then indeed he made a political mistake. That's a reasonable thing to say.

    But it still comes down to guessing about how bothered Harbaugh was or wasn't about Pollard's mouth.

    I can believe it was an issue, but I don't believe it was THE ISSUE.




  9. #39

    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    Supposedly, that meeting that was characterized as a "near mutiny" was where Harbaugh encouraged players to speak freely.

    Only after the players spoke up. It's not like Harbaugh said "let's get our feelings out."

    There was an unprovoked challenge made to his authority. He responded pretty well to it. But it's generally not the best practice to call out your boss in front of your coworkers, is it?




  10. #40
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    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    Quote Originally Posted by sopranocorleone View Post
    it's generally not the best practice to call out your boss in front of your coworkers, is it?
    True. Of course, my co-workers and I are not generally making $2 to $12 million a year, in many cases two or three times more than the boss. So... I don't know if the working environment here tells me anything about the working environment inside the place they call The Castle.




  11. #41
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    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    John Harbaugh is a gangster at heart. If you haven't figured that out by now, you might want to ask somebody.

    Whose is the one key name missing from the entire 'mutiny' story? The leader of leaders for the Baltimore Ravens, Ray Lewis. Do you want to know why, because Ray Lewis handled issues with the coaching staff the right way. When he felt that Greg Mattison was not aggressive enough, he went to him personally, behind closed doors. When he felt that they should "let the rushers rush and the cover guys cover", as he put it, he went to the coaches, before bringing his information back to the players. Ray Lewis led with positive energy. If you notice, of all the veterans that we've heard of who didn't care for Harbaugh, the one guy whose name has never came up is Ray Lewis.

    Reed was never a leader. Reed was an introvert who wanted to do things his own way. Once he got older, due to his status, he just felt like he shouldn't be told how to do things, because his way always worked. His actual leadership skills are hit and miss.

    You don't buck a coach after the ass whooping they took, because you don't feel as though you should have to practice in pads. Really? Do you think Belichick puts up with that shit? Do you think Mike Tomlin puts up with that shit? That defense went through one sucky assed season and look how the players handled it throughout the entire year. God Bless Ray Lewis, because there aren't too many leaders that could have kept that ship together. God Bless Joe Flacco too, because he's the one who had to put up with Cameron's shit while getting criticized by his own teammates no less. Who was the main guy who came out and did that? Surprise, surprise, Ed Reed.

    I keep telling you guys that John Harbaugh is Michael Corleone deep down. And you know what, now that they won the Super Bowl, Ozzie is REALLY going to roll with it. This is what Bisciotti wanted when he fired Billick, somebody to unify the locker room and restore order.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  12. #42

    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    I loved having Pollard on the team but being honest he can not cover very well. Why pay him when you could draft a rookie and pay him dirt and maybe get a future pro bowler/HOF player?

    It's all strategy and business.




  13. #43

    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    John Harbaugh is a gangster at heart. If you haven't figured that out by now, you might want to ask somebody.

    Whose is the one key name missing from the entire 'mutiny' story? The leader of leaders for the Baltimore Ravens, Ray Lewis. Do you want to know why, because Ray Lewis handled issues with the coaching staff the right way. When he felt that Greg Mattison was not aggressive enough, he went to him personally, behind closed doors. When he felt that they should "let the rushers rush and the cover guys cover", as he put it, he went to the coaches, before bringing his information back to the players. Ray Lewis led with positive energy. If you notice, of all the veterans that we've heard of who didn't care for Harbaugh, the one guy whose name has never came up is Ray Lewis.

    Reed was never a leader. Reed was an introvert who wanted to do things his own way. Once he got older, due to his status, he just felt like he shouldn't be told how to do things, because his way always worked. His actual leadership skills are hit and miss.

    You don't buck a coach after the ass whooping they took, because you don't feel as though you should have to practice in pads. Really? Do you think Belichick puts up with that shit? Do you think Mike Tomlin puts up with that shit? That defense went through one sucky assed season and look how the players handled it throughout the entire year. God Bless Ray Lewis, because there aren't too many leaders that could have kept that ship together. God Bless Joe Flacco too, because he's the one who had to put up with Cameron's shit while getting criticized by his own teammates no less. Who was the main guy who came out and did that? Surprise, surprise, Ed Reed.

    I keep telling you guys that John Harbaugh is Michael Corleone deep down. And you know what, now that they won the Super Bowl, Ozzie is REALLY going to roll with it. This is what Bisciotti wanted when he fired Billick, somebody to unify the locker room and restore order.
    Elegantly stated!




  14. #44

    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    True. Of course, my co-workers and I are not generally making $2 to $12 million a year, in many cases two or three times more than the boss. So... I don't know if the working environment here tells me anything about the working environment inside the place they call The Castle.
    Fair enough and you're definitely right that it's hard to compare. But I think this quote from the article sums everything up: "Harbaugh also is wise enough to realize that any player who doesn’t understand the notion that coaches coach and players play should be playing for someone else."

    This is of course accepting that this near mutiny is the only reason he was cut. It's much ado about nothing IMO. Pollard had other issues that led to his release. Given that he's gotten a June designation, it's definitely more cap related than we originally believed.




  15. #45

    Re: Bernard Pollard responds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    John Harbaugh is a gangster at heart. If you haven't figured that out by now, you might want to ask somebody.

    Whose is the one key name missing from the entire 'mutiny' story? The leader of leaders for the Baltimore Ravens, Ray Lewis. Do you want to know why, because Ray Lewis handled issues with the coaching staff the right way. When he felt that Greg Mattison was not aggressive enough, he went to him personally, behind closed doors. When he felt that they should "let the rushers rush and the cover guys cover", as he put it, he went to the coaches, before bringing his information back to the players. Ray Lewis led with positive energy. If you notice, of all the veterans that we've heard of who didn't care for Harbaugh, the one guy whose name has never came up is Ray Lewis.
    If you have a look at the behind the scenes video of the game against the Broncos, at 3:45, look at the communication and understanding between Ray and John. Ive never seen John do this, as in, talk to the players about the plays in-depth and consult, also because I rarely watch behind the scenes stuff. Usually Ray would be talking to a defensive coach, but here he talks directly with John. John may just be a Special Teams coach, which is probably why he doesnt get the respect from Pollard and Reed, but if you look at this scene, John is willing to listen and understand as long as there is effective communication and mutual respect. Excellector is spot on.

    Last edited by Aussie_Raven; 04-01-2013 at 07:14 PM.




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