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  1. #61
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    Re: We need a beast WR



    Quote Originally Posted by TDL1000 View Post
    If the Ravens are to deal away multiple/future draft picks I would prefer they do it for an established player so then they at least know what they are getting.It's one thing to gamble multiple picks when a team is desperate to move up and draft a Luck or an RG3, but to do that for a marginally talented player who at this point has yet to prove anything at the NFL level would be a risk the Ravens don't need to take.
    Are you in favor of signing Victor Cruz?
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  2. #62
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Count me in the anti-Patterson group as well. I think people are getting blinded by the speed/size combination. Unless you're Al Davis you don't want to pay up for a guy like this.
    So no one else is intrigued by the fact that Justin Hunter, Da'Rick Rogers and Patterson all played at Tenn yet Patterson is still generally #1 of that bunch?

    Both Hunter and Rogers have more established stats and documented production at Tenn (and elsewhere), yet Patterson is still generally rated higher than those 2 WRs, who likewise have potent size and speed combination.




  3. #63
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Really? Hyperbole much?
    Hyperboles are definitely my friend. However, to give up high-end picks in a draft this deep to roll the dice on a player like Patterson is awful strategy IMO.

    If we did give up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Patterson....that would essentially be trading Patterson for Minter, Eric Reid, and D'Arick Rodgers (sp?). I'm not sure I'd make that move even if Patterson was viewed as a can't miss type guy. I'd rather take the diminished value that Rodgers brings over a sure thing and offset it with the value of Minter and Reid. I wouldn't say there is any guarantee that Patterson ever proves better than a potential 3rd round pick like Rodgers.




  4. #64
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Luck or RG3 never proved anything at the NFL level either before being drafted either. Everyone in the draft is an unknown if you want to play that card. One of them could have easily been the next Ryan Leaf.
    Poor example IMO. Luck had a huge sample size in college giving you a good idea that he was going to succeed as a pro. RG3 was a Heisman trophy winner, not some guy who caught less than 50 balls in college.

    Also, you are much more likely to gamble on an "unknown" (your words not mine) if that guy is a QB. Historically speaking, if you gamble and hit on an elite QB, you will win a Super Bowl. If you look at the top 8 QBs in football today, seven have rings (Brees, Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Eli, Flacco) and Matt Ryan very well may have one in the next 3-4 years.

    If you look at the elite WRs, you don't see many (if any) rings. Megatron, Andre Johnson, Fitzgerald (the closest of the under 30 WR crowd), Marshall, D. Thomas, Wayne (one ring). If you gamble and hit on a WR, no guaranteed success typically ensues.




  5. #65
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    So no one else is intrigued by the fact that Justin Hunter, Da'Rick Rogers and Patterson all played at Tenn yet Patterson is still generally #1 of that bunch?

    Both Hunter and Rogers have more established stats and documented production at Tenn (and elsewhere), yet Patterson is still generally rated higher than those 2 WRs, who likewise have potent size and speed combination.
    Patterson reminds me of Ted Ginn, not physically but the way he plays, who also went in the top 10. I didn't want him either. Just because a player is rated high and drafted high doesn't mean he's going to be a great player. I have a tough time determining how good a player will be after 1 year. I need to see more if he's going to be a high round pick.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  6. #66
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    L.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he is gone by 15. I haven't seen a single mock draft that had Patterson as low as 40-45.
    He definitely seems to be trending upwards. I'll give you that. A month ago, he was listed as a early 2nd rounder. Walter Football currently has him mocked to the Bills at pick 8. That would be a stunningly awful pick in my opinion.




  7. #67

    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Are you in favor of signing Victor Cruz?
    He's a quality player but I'm not sure they could handle his salary.I was thinking more along the lines of a Sidney Rice or *gasp* Santonio Holmes.They could even bring in Braylon Edwards for the vet minimum.
    Last edited by TDL1000; 03-29-2013 at 12:56 PM.




  8. #68

    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I think when some folks say "beast" receiver they are looking for that big-bodied/dominant player.

    Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas...all are tall, muscular, fast, and explosive.

    Cordarelle Patterson may be the most "like" those guys...but he is still pretty raw IMO.
    Roger that. So I would say Allen over Rogers, and no one else is on my list based on these criteria, and for the fact that I cannot account for Rogers' attitude. So Allen is the safer pick.

    Allen is a superb athlete and plays aggressive. He's not a 1st round talented receiver, but he's a first round athlete. I think his ceiling is pretty high. I feel that he could become a very good weapon opposite Torrey. With Joe throwing to him, he could become every bit as featured as what most of think Torrey will be. He has no baggage that I'm aware of. However, I still wouldn't burn our 32nd on him. However, if he falls (due to his injury) then it would not surprise me if we took him (obviously, assuming he had actually worked out for us prior to the Draft and looked fine). Actually, I suspect that we will sneak him in for a visit.

    Rogers has a slightly better WR skill set than Allen (for me it boils down to Rogers's feet > Allen's YAC ability), but there's his history and maturity. I think Rogers (with a good attitude and if he wants to be) could be a dominate player in 3-4 years. However, I wouldn't burn our 32nd on him either unless I was sure about his head and attitude. I don't think that grabbing him at #62 would be that much of a reach; he has the 3rd or 4th best skill-set in this Draft IMO, and is also a top 5 athlete at the position.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  9. #69
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Hyperboles are definitely my friend. However, to give up high-end picks in a draft this deep to roll the dice on a player like Patterson is awful strategy IMO.

    If we did give up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Patterson....that would essentially be trading Patterson for Minter, Eric Reid, and D'Arick Rodgers (sp?). I'm not sure I'd make that move even if Patterson was viewed as a can't miss type guy. I'd rather take the diminished value that Rodgers brings over a sure thing and offset it with the value of Minter and Reid. I wouldn't say there is any guarantee that Patterson ever proves better than a potential 3rd round pick like Rodgers.
    Just to be contrarian - I wouldn't say there is any guarantee Patterson doesn't turn into a superstar, Rogers is out of the league in 3 years, Reid and Minter turn into average at best players.

    No one knows. I get that you have a greater chance to "hit" on 3 players than 1. But nothing is guaranteed. those 3 players could just as easily bust. quality vs quantity
    Last edited by bt12483; 03-29-2013 at 12:51 PM.




  10. #70
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    He definitely seems to be trending upwards. I'll give you that. A month ago, he was listed as a early 2nd rounder. Walter Football currently has him mocked to the Bills at pick 8. That would be a stunningly awful pick in my opinion.
    Daniel Jeremiah has him at 22 to StL. He previously had him #8 to Buff.




  11. #71
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Just because a player is rated high and drafted high doesn't mean he's going to be a great player.
    And someone could easily state the opposite and it would be an equally valid observation. Just because they are rated high and drafted high doesn't mean he's not going to be a great player.




  12. #72
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    And someone could easily state the opposite and it would be an equally valid observation. Just because they are rated high and drafted high doesn't mean he's not going to be a great player.
    Absolutely. Cam Newton was one of those guys I wouldn't have touched. His 1 season just wasn't enough for me. I think that Cam has looked pretty good so far. Everyone has different criteria before they make that leap of faith for a player they want in the draft.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  13. #73

    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Roger that. So I would say Allen over Rogers, and no one else is on my list based on these criteria, and for the fact that I cannot account for Rogers' attitude. So Allen is the safer pick.

    Allen is a superb athlete and plays aggressive. He's not a 1st round talented receiver, but he's a first round athlete. I think his ceiling is pretty high. I feel that he could become a very good weapon opposite Torrey. With Joe throwing to him, he could become every bit as featured as what most of think Torrey will be. He has no baggage that I'm aware of. However, I still wouldn't burn our 32nd on him. However, if he falls (due to his injury) then it would not surprise me if we took him (obviously, assuming he had actually worked out for us prior to the Draft and looked fine). Actually, I suspect that we will sneak him in for a visit.

    Rogers has a slightly better WR skill set than Allen (for me it boils down to Rogers's feet > Allen's YAC ability), but there's his history and maturity. I think Rogers (with a good attitude and if he wants to be) could be a dominate player in 3-4 years. However, I wouldn't burn our 32nd on him either unless I was sure about his head and attitude. I don't think that grabbing him at #62 would be that much of a reach; he has the 3rd or 4th best skill-set in this Draft IMO, and is also a top 5 athlete at the position.
    Good post. I, too, would squirm just a little bit if we took Keenan Allen with the 32nd pick. I have (like you) come to sweeten on him just a bit as I watched more of his tape, but I still don't really see a first-round receiver skill-set in him. Don't get me wrong, he's got athletic ability in spades, but his technique is way, way outside the 1st round. How is he going to handle being asked to run a full route tree instead of just slants, digs, curls, etc? How is he going to handle getting pressed at the line and having to make catches in traffic and against tight man coverage?

    I would not take Keenan Allen over Matt Elam, Alec Ogletree, Tyler Eifert, or DeAndre Hopkins. I have a good feeling one of those 4 players will be there for the Ravens to pull the trigger on. If they don't take Hopkins in the 1st (which is understandable, might be a slight reach, definitely not the "value" pick the Ravens usually prefer in the 1st) I've been pegging Rogers as a 3rd-round target that would likely require a trade up for the Ravens, but his value might be higher than that in the eyes of a lot of teams. There's just too much Julio Jones in him to prevent him for sliding too much. If he's there at #62 I would probably have to bite the bullet and take him.




  14. #74
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post

    I would not take Keenan Allen over Matt Elam, Alec Ogletree, Tyler Eifert, or DeAndre Hopkins.
    Out of those guys, I would go with Eifert. Then, run 2 TE sets with Pitta and Eifert like the Pats use Gronk and Hernandez.




  15. #75
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    Re: We need a beast WR

    If Keenan Allen fell to us at 32 I would be extremely happy. Perhaps it is because I live on the west coast and most of you don't but reading above it sure doesn't seem like folks have an appreciation of the guy. For three years he's been the focal point of a pretty horrible offense with pretty horrible quarterbacks. Opposing defenses always keyed on him and he always came through. I do believe his stock is down with mockers since he hasn't worked out due to his injury but I have to believe that teams won't let him slide to us. They know his value.

    Ogletree? A knucklehead though very athletic. Elam? Tailed off last year-didn't you all notice Teddy Bridgewater and Louisville picking on him? Elam's a 2nd round pick-probably the worst of the bunch here. Eifert is comparable but plays a position of less need so I would pick Allen over him. Hopkins is very comparable-and loses out to Allen. Probably a mid 2nd round pick. Rogers? Doesn't belong in this conversation. Day 2 guy strictly.




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