SCOTUS to Hear Prop 8 & DOMA Cases

[HoustonRaven]

Getting kind of dull in this area so I figured I get a discussion not related to guns going ....

Thoughts on the cases?

Personally, I think DOMA gets tossed but I am not sure about Prop 8. I cannot recall a time when SCOTUS considered a case when the petitioner won their case in lower court. I would not be surprised if they toss it out on procedural grounds (no standing).

[wickedsolo]

I'm sorry if this is insensitive to other beliefs on "marriage" and what it means...but really? Really? The Supreme Court is now involved?

Do we really not have more pressing things going on?

[HoustonRaven]

I'm sorry if this is insensitive to other beliefs on "marriage" and what it means...but really? Really? The Supreme Court is now involved?

Do we really not have more pressing things going on?

Well, to be fair the court, they are handling a ton of other issues this session as well.

I agree with this sentiment for the Prob 8 case. They won their case. I do not think they have standing.

DOMA though is a constitutional issue, thus it's the type of case the court was designed for.

[NCRAVEN]

Help me out. I haven't really followed this.

Prop 8 passed. What happened after that?

[HoustonRaven]

Help me out. I haven't really followed this.

Prop 8 passed. What happened after that?

It was appealed to the CA SPCT where it was struck down. That's why I am kinda puzzled as to why it's even being heard in SCOTUS.

The petitioners won their appeal and Prop 8 was declared unconstitutional at the state level but they are now filing with SCOTUS.

[NCRAVEN]

It was appealed to the CA SPCT where it was struck down. That's why I am kinda puzzled as to why it's even being heard in SCOTUS.

The petitioners won their appeal and Prop 8 was declared unconstitutional at the state level but they are now filing with SCOTUS.

Guess they are trying to win a national victory?

Yea, but at their core, it is revolving around gay marriage, right?

Marriage licenses are state issued.

Let the states deal with it and let the states iron it all out. The Federal government has other things to worry about.

I agree with that.

[wickedsolo]

Well, to be fair the court, they are handling a ton of other issues this session as well.

I agree with this sentiment for the Prob 8 case. They won their case. I do not think they have standing.

DOMA though is a constitutional issue, thus it's the type of case the court was designed for.

Yea, but at their core, it is revolving around gay marriage, right?

Marriage licenses are state issued.

Let the states deal with it and let the states iron it all out. The Federal government has other things to worry about.

[HoustonRaven]

Yea, but at their core, it is revolving around gay marriage, right?

Marriage licenses are state issued.

Let the states deal with it and let the states iron it all out. The Federal government has other things to worry about.

I agree that's what is outght to be, but the Courts co-opted the marriage debate as a civil rights issue long before these cases.

The Libertarian in me agrees with you on that principle but the realty is that it IS in the courts now. I'd be ok if SCOTUS decided that this is a states rights issue and be done with it.

[NCRAVEN]

I agree that's what is outght to be, but the Courts co-opted the marriage debate as a civil rights issue long before these cases.

The Libertarian in me agrees with you on that principle but the realty is that it IS in the courts now. I'd be ok if SCOTUS decided that this is a states rights issue and be done with it.

Me too. Then we could take that question out of the Presidential debates... or at least hope it would.

[HoustonRaven]

Prop 8 was actually upheld by CA SPCT.

Then it was challenged in federal court. It was District Federal Court where it was overturned by activist clown Judge Vaughan Walker.

It then went to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which predictably and erroneously affirmed Walker's nonsensical ruling.

Now it is before SCOTUS. As with most highly-politicized issues that reach SCOTUS, the law is a secondary concern in the process, and Justice Kennedy determines the outcome.

The rule of law may still be upheld here is SCOTUS rules they don't have standing. Again, this is a first -- a petitioner who won their appeal in a lower court getting a hearing in SCOTUS.

As for DOMA, it should be thrown out, IMO, and I believe it will.

[Haloti92]

The rule of law may still be upheld here is SCOTUS rules they don't have standing. Again, this is a first -- a petitioner who won their appeal in a lower court getting a hearing in SCOTUS.

As for DOMA, it should be thrown out, IMO, and I believe it will.

The standing issue is tricky. The main issue with standing is whether proponents of Prop 8 have standing in the case since the State has decided not to defend it's own law. If the Court claims the proponents do not have standing then Walker's ruling stands and Prop 8 falls (remains struck down), unless...

Technically, it follows that a ruling that declares the proponents of Prop 8 lack standing would result in the Justices determining that these same proponents lacked standing in the 9th Circuit as well. If this is the case, then the Justices could vacate the trial (where Walker presided) entirely, leaving everything back at square one, where Prop 8 stands and the District Court challenge has to be started anew.

But Kennedy has correctly identified why it would be dangerous to deny standing for the proponents in this case. And it is because it would give the State a one-way ratchet in terms of the formation of laws. If an initiative they like is challenged they can defend it, and if they lose, they can appeal it (with obvious standing). If an initiative they don't like is challenged they can choose not to defend it, thereby denying the ability of proponents of the law to appeal due to such standing rulings.

[AirFlacco]

Roberts will OK it with the other liberals of the court. Constitutional legality doesn't matter as we saw in the last two land mark decisions with health care and immigration in Arizona.