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  1. #16
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?



    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    Brady took a massive discount; does that count as collusion too?

    Strange.
    lol no he didn't... he got a lot of money as a bonus and his salary was guaranteed.




  2. #17
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    lol no he didn't... he got a lot of money as a bonus and his salary was guaranteed.
    I want that discount that Brady took. Brady ended up with the ultimate retirement plan. A 100% guaranteed contract is every players dream.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  3. #18
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I want that discount that Brady took. Brady ended up with the ultimate retirement plan. A 100% guaranteed contract is every players dream.




  4. #19
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    Only illegal collusion if Carroll is paying them money under the table.
    Yeah because Carroll is clean as a whistle. I know I know, no proof. But he is a dirty character.

    All I'm saying is I've seen Bennett ranked very high on Free Agent lists and he signs a 1 year deal for $5M? That just seems unbelievable to me. Most guys relish their first chance at free agency. And he settles for a 1 year deal?

    The only time you see one year deals are usually "prove it" deals for players coming off injury. Not 27 year old prime pass rushers.




  5. #20
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Yeah because Carroll is clean as a whistle. I know I know, no proof. But he is a dirty character.

    All I'm saying is I've seen Bennett ranked very high on Free Agent lists and he signs a 1 year deal for $5M? That just seems unbelievable to me. Most guys relish their first chance at free agency. And he settles for a 1 year deal?

    The only time you see one year deals are usually "prove it" deals for players coming off injury. Not 27 year old prime pass rushers.
    It's not that Carroll is clean. It's that it would be pretty tough to get away with. The NFL has been very aggressive in checking these things ever since the 49ers embarrassed them. Carmen Policy was forced out the NFL because of off the books deals. As we saw with the Redskins cap issues last year the other owners aren't going to put up with any nonsense. It would be pretty tough to pull off with multiple players.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  6. #21

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    It's not that Carroll is clean. It's that it would be pretty tough to get away with. The NFL has been very aggressive in checking these things ever since the 49ers embarrassed them. Carmen Policy was forced out the NFL because of off the books deals. As we saw with the Redskins cap issues last year the other owners aren't going to put up with any nonsense. It would be pretty tough to pull off with multiple players.
    I wouldn't characterize the NFL's disciplining of Policy as aggressive at all. He got a $400K fine and no suspension. He continued as Cleveland Browns President for another 4 years, before stepping down in '04.

    The NFL doesn't seem to really want to come down hard on organized, franchise-sponsored cheating for fear of tarnishing the shield. Spygate was basically swept under the rug - to the point of actually destroying the evidence.

    If Carroll's dirty, my guess is the NFL would just as soon that no one ever found out. But a single, undervalued contract - especially during a FA period when the pass-rushers as a whole haven't been getting the big money everyone predicted, doesn't even qualify a smoke, much less a fire.




  7. #22

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    I don't understand the point of this thread.

    I what way could this possibly be colluding?

    Did I see Avril or Bennett "Forced" to take those deals? Are you actually suggesting that a coach can "force" a grown as man to take any deal at all? When the money is on TOP of the table instead of under?

    I don't understand this thread at all...in no way shape or form do I see a coach able to do anything to force a professional athlete to sign with his team.

    I'm all ears for specific theoretical examples though...this should be good.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  8. #23
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    I wouldn't characterize the NFL's disciplining of Policy as aggressive at all. He got a $400K fine and no suspension. He continued as Cleveland Browns President for another 4 years, before stepping down in '04.

    The NFL doesn't seem to really want to come down hard on organized, franchise-sponsored cheating for fear of tarnishing the shield. Spygate was basically swept under the rug - to the point of actually destroying the evidence.

    If Carroll's dirty, my guess is the NFL would just as soon that no one ever found out. But a single, undervalued contract - especially during a FA period when the pass-rushers as a whole haven't been getting the big money everyone predicted, doesn't even qualify a smoke, much less a fire.
    Yes it seems the FA market overall is quite depressed this year in terms of contract value and length.

    But still, it isn't often you see 2 of the top FA pass rushers sign for a combined $20M.




  9. #24
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I don't understand the point of this thread.

    I what way could this possibly be colluding?

    Did I see Avril or Bennett "Forced" to take those deals? Are you actually suggesting that a coach can "force" a grown as man to take any deal at all? When the money is on TOP of the table instead of under?

    I don't understand this thread at all...in no way shape or form do I see a coach able to do anything to force a professional athlete to sign with his team.

    I'm all ears for specific theoretical examples though...this should be good.
    The players band together and agree to take lower value contracts to win a championship. That is all I was implying.

    Again, it is not often you see 2 of the top FA pass rushers sign for $20M total.

    Kruger alone got $20M in guarantees.




  10. #25

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    The players band together and agree to take lower value contracts to win a championship. That is all I was implying.

    Again, it is not often you see 2 of the top FA pass rushers sign for $20M total.

    Kruger alone got $20M in guarantees.
    That's not in any way colluding.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  11. #26
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    That's not in any way colluding.
    Yes it is. It is a form of price fixing.

    Don't worry about it, I know my fears are irrational.

    It was just shocking to see 2 of the top FA pass rushers sign for what I thought was dirt cheap, to a team written in as the paper SB champs for 2013 (before the additions of Avril and Bennett).




  12. #27

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    Brady took a massive discount; does that count as collusion too?

    Strange.
    Brady didn't take a discount, and I'm so tired of hearing this talk. That's a scam. The dude will be getting paid between 12-15 million a year, GUARANTEED until he is 40! Joe Flacco took a discount. YOu know why, because the way his contract is constructed, cap friendly up front, and beyond inflated on the back, means there will be no way in hell he realizes years 4-6 of that contract, and a restructure will be necessary to keep him.

    Basically if Tom Brady took a "market value" contract, he'd have it backloaded, like most do, and he'd be approaching 40 when his big paydays are expected to hit, at which point Brady would be like Manning last year, but potentially a shit out of luck if he is seriously injured and can't play anymore. GuaRANTEED money is the only important thing in contracts. Joe's contract, after common sense and taxes is taken into equation, will come to 30 million if he's lucky.
    "Sorry officer, nothing wrong here. I'm just watching the Ravens game!"




  13. #28

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    The players band together and agree to take lower value contracts to win a championship. That is all I was implying.

    Again, it is not often you see 2 of the top FA pass rushers sign for $20M total.

    Kruger alone got $20M in guarantees.
    It's called "Lebron'ing"...
    "Sorry officer, nothing wrong here. I'm just watching the Ravens game!"




  14. #29

    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Yes it is. It is a form of price fixing.

    Don't worry about it, I know my fears are irrational.

    It was just shocking to see 2 of the top FA pass rushers sign for what I thought was dirt cheap, to a team written in as the paper SB champs for 2013 (before the additions of Avril and Bennett).
    How is it price fixing when the players voluntarily took less money? Sometimes the money isn't there. Bennett in particular only had one productive season.

    And if all the owners/GM's were in on this, how does this have anything to do with Carroll being shady?
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  15. #30
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    Re: Player collusion in Seattle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    How is it price fixing when the players voluntarily took less money?
    because they voluntarily took less money. They fixed their price...low. Of course this assumes they turned down a higher offer, which is an unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    And if all the owners/GM's were in on this, how does this have anything to do with Carroll being shady?
    My point was Carroll is shady and this seems shady.

    Shady people conduct shady business.

    But like I said, don't worry about it.

    I realize it is a whacky proposition.

    Though I still am a bit shocked that those 2 players were obtained for what they were.




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