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  1. #91

    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?



    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Our best defender across the entire season was UNDOUBTEDLY Paul Kruger.

    LOL Sorry, but I almost spit out my coffee laughing when I read that.
    Way Down South in New Orleans




  2. #92
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    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by NOLARavenFAN View Post
    LOL Sorry, but I almost spit out my coffee laughing when I read that.
    I don't drink coffee, but I would have spit it out too if I did.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    I don't drink coffee, but I would have spit it out too if I did.
    I choked on mine!

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2




  4. #94
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    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    It's jaw-dropping that some appear RESOLVED that our defense will be better last year. The team has now lost 5 of its 6 best defensive players from last year's run. I have no problem with optimism but some here are so drunk on purple kool-aid that they think we've gone through addition by subtraction. Not so.

    Our best defender across the entire season was UNDOUBTEDLY Paul Kruger. I don't care how much he got overpaid, how much of a one year wonder he was, or how vehemently people want to insist he "wasn't good against the run" (WRONG, WATCH THE TAPE, but this meme just won't die). He was our best and most consistent defender, followed by Ellerbe. After Ellerbe it was likely Ngata, even as down a year as he had, and thankfully he is staying. Then Reed, Pollard, and Cary Williams--all gone, and even as imperfect as all of them were, each was a major part of our title defense.

    I understand the arguments for why all 5 of those guys are not on the team and I agree with every one of them. But that doesn't change the fact that when you lose 5 of your 6 best defensive players, you have a long way to go to make it back to status quo. Webb coming back should help, although we have no idea how long it will take for him to get back to 100%. Same goes with Suggs and his recovery. I also fully expect guys like Corey Graham, Upshaw, and Art Jones to continue to develop and become stronger contributors next year, and we've added talent to the DL in free agency.

    But even being as optimistic as possible and expecting all of those improvements to happen, if we don't make any FA moves and depend on the draft to reload, you're still talking about replacing 4 defensive starters on a team that RARELY starts even ONE rookie defender in any given year, especially a year picking outside of the top 15 in round 1. I totally agree that Ozzie has a viable long-term plan, but I see no evidence that the defense ON PAPER should reasonably be expected to be BETTER overall next year.
    You mean the same Kruger who was practically invisible before Suggs returned?




  5. #95

    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by NOLARavenFAN View Post
    LOL Sorry, but I almost spit out my coffee laughing when I read that.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    I don't drink coffee, but I would have spit it out too if I did.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmorebirds_24 View Post
    I choked on mine!

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    You mean the same Kruger who was practically invisible before Suggs returned?
    I've addressed this many, many times. Try going back and watching the tape. Suggs had NOTHING to do with Kruger's good play this past season, end of story. Outside of game 1 vs. Cincinnati (where he had a legitimately bad game), Kruger was THE SAME PLAYER the entire season long.

    I get the argument that "teams were accounting for Suggs and that's why Kruger started piling up sacks..." it's wrong. End of story. Teams weren't sliding protections or chipping Suggs at all this past season. They weren't sending double teams or pushing set blockers to his side. Those are the kinds of schematic changes that open things up for rushers from the other side. It just wasn't happening; Kruger was the one seeing double-teams and sliding protections, yet he was still beating them. Go back and watch both Steelers games and watch Pittsburgh sending TRIPLE TEAMS to Kruger while Max Starks was shutting down Suggs on the other side. It's right there on the tape for you to see.

    Go back and watch the Chiefs game. Kruger didn't have a sack but he had 3 TFLs and completely blew up the Chiefs' run game to that side. But if you're just looking at sack totals you won't see that. Again, it's obvious that Ozzie was not going to pay Kruger's price tag based on ONE great season and I get that, but it doesn't change what Kruger was on the field this past year. If you guys don't agree with me fine, but at least SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENTS with reality and facts.




  6. #96
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    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    It's jaw-dropping that some appear RESOLVED that our defense will be better last year. The team has now lost 5 of its 6 best defensive players from last year's run. I have no problem with optimism but some here are so drunk on purple kool-aid that they think we've gone through addition by subtraction. Not so.

    Our best defender across the entire season was UNDOUBTEDLY Paul Kruger.
    You meant the part in bold to be funny I am hoping. If not I am not sure what team you were watching. The best defender on this team last season was Ngata IMO...one need only look at how the D played once he was off the field in the SB to understand that.

    Kruger did practically nothing till Suggs came back. He was not good against the run...I have watched the games and the tape and its right there in full vivid color. There was a reason Upshaw saw the playing time he did even once Suggs got back....cause Kruger boderline sucked against the run. Whats next? Pollard was the best DB we had last year and was actually good in coverage? Kruger will be missed, I agree on that. At 8 million per year the Browns can have him though.

    I think you undervalue just how bad the D line was at times last year with Kemo/Cody and how much the improvements they have made there will benefit not only the guys who are still here but also the guys they are yet to bring in.

    I am not sure if the D will be better or worse. It remains to be seen based on who they bring in. I have no reason to think they cannot be good. They have Ngata, Canty, Suggs, Upshaw, Webb, Graham, Smith and Art Jones. That is a decent bit of talent to build around IMO. Will they be that dominant D they were when we had Boller at QB...no. Will they god awful....I doubt that even more.
    A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,
    -Ray Lewis




  7. #97

    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Kruger being at least below-average against the run wasn't a myth. His best game defending the run was earlier in the year against the Chiefs. That version of Kruger was hardly ever seen again; if he had he wouldn't have been subbed out in favor of Upshaw.




  8. #98
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    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I've addressed this many, many times. Try going back and watching the tape. Suggs had NOTHING to do with Kruger's good play this past season, end of story. Outside of game 1 vs. Cincinnati (where he had a legitimately bad game), Kruger was THE SAME PLAYER the entire season long.

    I get the argument that "teams were accounting for Suggs and that's why Kruger started piling up sacks..." it's wrong. End of story. Teams weren't sliding protections or chipping Suggs at all this past season. They weren't sending double teams or pushing set blockers to his side. Those are the kinds of schematic changes that open things up for rushers from the other side. It just wasn't happening; Kruger was the one seeing double-teams and sliding protections, yet he was still beating them. Go back and watch both Steelers games and watch Pittsburgh sending TRIPLE TEAMS to Kruger while Max Starks was shutting down Suggs on the other side. It's right there on the tape for you to see.

    Go back and watch the Chiefs game. Kruger didn't have a sack but he had 3 TFLs and completely blew up the Chiefs' run game to that side. But if you're just looking at sack totals you won't see that. Again, it's obvious that Ozzie was not going to pay Kruger's price tag based on ONE great season and I get that, but it doesn't change what Kruger was on the field this past year. If you guys don't agree with me fine, but at least SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENTS with reality and facts.
    So your going to take the ONE game were Kruger played decently against the run as an indicator of his play vrs the run all season?

    That would be like taking a game were Upshaw had a sack and saying he was as explosive a rusher as Paul Kruger because he out sacked him that one particular game.

    Kruger was ranked almost dead last against the run by Profootball Focus and numerous other talent evaluation services. The fact the Ravens played Upshaw in rushing situations should tell you the Ravens agree with those evals but but yea go on believing that he was good against it.
    A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,
    -Ray Lewis




  9. #99

    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds View Post
    Kruger being at least below-average against the run wasn't a myth. His best game defending the run was earlier in the year against the Chiefs. That version of Kruger was hardly ever seen again; if he had he wouldn't have been subbed out in favor of Upshaw.
    He wasn't GREAT against the run, but that's not his game. He is a weak-side penetrator who's going to struggle when teams run the ball right at him. His play on the backside and in pursuit is very good, but playing him at SAM exposed him to more direct running. I don't disagree that he wasn't a complete player against the run. People are also underestimating how good Upshaw was against the run. PFF and Football Outsiders has him graded as one of the best OLBs in the ENTIRE LEAGUE against the run. When you're comparing elite overall run defense (Upshaw) with average overall run defese (Kruger) of course you're going to make that substitution.

    Paul Kruger had a DOMINANT year rushing the passer with no real help around him in that respect; he was our only real pass rushing threat. Ngata had a good year at times but was downright bad as well at times, obviously due to injury, and so there's no real way you can call him the best and most consistent defender. This is a passing league, and guys who consistently generate pressure and disruption are rare, impactful, and often paid a ton of money. That's what Kruger was and I'm sure Cleveland is hoping that's what he's going to be.




  10. #100
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    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Summary: After the Ravens’ wildcard victory over the Indianapolis Colts this January there was one pass rushers name on everybody’s lips and that was Paul Kruger. However Kruger then didn’t back that up with similarly dominating displays against elite pass protection offensive lines in Denver and in particular New England (-3.0 pass rush). To add to this, Kruger has an awful habit of blowing contain in run defense when he tries to crash down on run plays.

    However, to his credit after a very up-and-down start to the season, from mid-season onward he was a force for the Ravens’ defense. The question teams will have to ask themselves when considering handing him the big contract he is surely in search of is whether he is a slow-developing player just starting to reach his peak or a player putting forth a massive effort in a contract season who might not live up to his next payday.

    From PFF




  11. Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    I seem to recall most of Kruger's sacks coming vs right tackles and TEs. He did dominate those guys, but I have not seen him do much when matched up with a left tackle. He did produce in the clutch and he will be missed, but he should also be able to be replaced and even vastly upgraded if we land Dumerville. Elvis has had consistant year in and year out production on both sides.







  12. #102

    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Ian Rapoport‏@RapSheet11m
    Ran into Ozzie Newsome leaving the Biltmore yesterday, said goodbye. He smiled & said: "Time to go draft some players!" Think he's worried?
    Dig it.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  13. #103
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    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah W View Post
    I seem to recall most of Kruger's sacks coming vs right tackles and TEs. He did dominate those guys, but I have not seen him do much when matched up with a left tackle. He did produce in the clutch and he will be missed, but he should also be able to be replaced and even vastly upgraded if we land Dumerville. Elvis has had consistant year in and year out production on both sides.
    So are you saying, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, that a sack doesn't count if it's up against a RT or TE ? ... Bc




  14. #104

    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    It's jaw-dropping that some appear RESOLVED that our defense will be better last year. The team has now lost 5 of its 6 best defensive players from last year's run. I have no problem with optimism but some here are so drunk on purple kool-aid that they think we've gone through addition by subtraction. Not so.

    Our best defender across the entire season was UNDOUBTEDLY Paul Kruger. I don't care how much he got overpaid, how much of a one year wonder he was, or how vehemently people want to insist he "wasn't good against the run" (WRONG, WATCH THE TAPE, but this meme just won't die). He was our best and most consistent defender, followed by Ellerbe. After Ellerbe it was likely Ngata, even as down a year as he had, and thankfully he is staying. Then Reed, Pollard, and Cary Williams--all gone, and even as imperfect as all of them were, each was a major part of our title defense.

    I understand the arguments for why all 5 of those guys are not on the team and I agree with every one of them. But that doesn't change the fact that when you lose 5 of your 6 best defensive players, you have a long way to go to make it back to status quo. Webb coming back should help, although we have no idea how long it will take for him to get back to 100%. Same goes with Suggs and his recovery. I also fully expect guys like Corey Graham, Upshaw, and Art Jones to continue to develop and become stronger contributors next year, and we've added talent to the DL in free agency.

    But even being as optimistic as possible and expecting all of those improvements to happen, if we don't make any FA moves and depend on the draft to reload, you're still talking about replacing 4 defensive starters on a team that RARELY starts even ONE rookie defender in any given year, especially a year picking outside of the top 15 in round 1. I totally agree that Ozzie has a viable long-term plan, but I see no evidence that the defense ON PAPER should reasonably be expected to be BETTER overall next year.
    The defense was bad last year. The best player on the defense was Ngata at less than 100%. Teams still had to account for him. Pollard was bad most of the season due to being injured. Cary Williams was the 2nd most burned cb in the league. He definitely stepped up at key times. Kruger was very bad against the run early in the season but got better as the year progressed. Ellerbe was the best ILB for sure and will be missed but he was banged up all year. The defense got better when Suggs returned.

    The reason why I have hopes that the defense will be better is not subtraction but getting some players fully healthy. Ngata, McPhee, Suggs and J smith will all lead to an improved defense. Jones was coming on strong as the year progressed. Upshaw in year two and hopefully in shape. Canty and another NT will lead to a stronger dine. Looks like the Ravens are going to replace Kruger with a situational pass rusher. There are still some really good players to build around.

    The dine should be much better this year and that will bethe reason the defense will improve.




  15. #105
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    Re: Why is everyone up in arms about rebuilding the defense?

    The Ravens were weak up front in the trenches until late in the year, Ngata and McPhee were hurt, Suggs missing, Upshaw a rookie and Cody and Kemo stink. Jones came on late. Looks like emphasis is to get better up front, and they will with the 2 signings and players coming back from injury, just need to get faster on the back end. I think the D will be better next year.




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