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Thread: WRs

  1. #16

    Re: WRs



    Young Da'Rick comes across as decent and sincere here at his pro day.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGxXA...layer_embedded

    Edit (3/23): Went back and watched more tape of Rogers.

    I may have been in a bad mood or just dog-tired when I watched him last time, but I'm impressed with his route running more than anything else.
    He gets out of his breaking routes very quickly...as quickly as the smaller Markus Wheaton and Studman Bailey do.

    He also sets up DBs very well. There's not much iso tape on Rogers, but from his "all targets" 2011 tape, you can see glimpses of him changing his release based upon coverage in order to "win" before he even makes his break. You can also see flashes of him running a slightly longer pre-stem in order to (I can only assume) get the DB to commit to coming out of his back peddle, so that Rogers' break can be more effective. I'd say his technical skill set (and on-field smarts) are pretty advanced. Not quite as good as Patton, Studman or Wheaton, but Rogers is up there.

    What I would like him to do more consistently is fight for the deep ball. Also, with the 6'2 217lb Rogers only rocking 10 reps @ 225, he has room to put on 8-10 lbs of muscle; which should not jeopardize his speed and quickness much at all (accounting for his incredible 4.06 shuttle and 6.71 3-cone). And even with that weak bench, his Explosive Index is an outstanding 181.5.

    Who knows if we are comfortable with his past troubles, but assuming that we are, Rogers gives you upper 2nd round talent for a mid-to-low 3rd round price.
    He's above-average on "foot separation", excellent on "route separation" and excellent on "toughness". I also score him excellent on "determined value" due to his strong 2011 performance at TN.
    Overall, I'd say he'd be a very good complementary fit opposite Torrey. Rogers would be the better route runner, but would be above-average deep threat as well. Looking at our depth chart, Rogers would get every opporunity to get some playing time as a rookie, since no one else has his complete skill-set. A 2nd year Rogers opposite a 4th year Torrey could be a very good combo...and that's not even counting who's in the slot, along with Doss and Streeter's development.
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 03-23-2013 at 12:30 PM.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  2. #17

    Re: WRs

    So from the perspective of fit or "what I think we need", my WR board is below.

    Old Assumption: Boldin and JJ12 will be back and in their 2012 positions (slot and #3/X respectively)

    New Assumption 1: JJ12, Doss and Reed will compete for the "X" (out-wide opposite Torrey)
    New Assumption 2: Caldwell has already designed plays for Austin
    New Assumption 3: We are comfortable with Rogers


    1st - Tavon Austin WVU
    Austin has the most elite athletic skill set that I have ever seen. He also happens to be a very good football player.

    2nd - Quinton Patton LATech, Da'Rick Rogers TNTech, Coradelle Patterson TN, Keenan Allen Cal
    --Setting aside elite athletism, Patton is the best pure WR in the Draft. He would have been in 2012 and 2010 also.
    --Rogers' foot-speed at his size is scary. He will have no trouble creating separation in the NFL. With some muscle, he could become an excellent pro.
    --Patterson has freakish elusiveness, but I don't trust his hands or his routes. Can't draft a guy in the 1st if he's still learning the position.
    --Allen is good, but there's nothing 1st round about his skill-set.

    3rd - Studman Bailey WVU, Markus Wheaton ORSt, DeAndre Hopkins Clemson, Aaron Dobson Marshall, Aaron Mellette Elon, Robert Woods USC, Justin Hunter TN
    Each guy here does a few things very well, but I'm not convinced that their strengths will translate to "starter material" in the NFL. Starters are most often found in the 1st and 2nd. In the case of Woods and Hunter, this is a safe place to draft them due to injury recoveries. As an outstanding technician, Studman "belongs" in the 2nd round, but with corners only getting bigger over time, I'm not sure that won't be hindered by his 5'10 frame.

    4th - Chad Bumphis MSST, Ryan Swope TX A&M, Uzoma Nwachukwu TX A&M
    --Bumphis has the best WR value in the Draft IMO. Strong hands, very good athlete, excellent feet, deceptive speed, and completely off most teams radars. Looking at his skill set, performance and value, I'd be very disappointed if the Ravens don't draft him unless they've actually taken a WR earlier.
    --Swope is here, b/c of his concussion history. Otherwise, he has 3rd round value purely from the slot.
    --Nwachukwu doesn't have the stats, but he stands out on tape big time. I think that Manziel looked at Swope, Evans and then ran. He often never looked at Nwachukwu unless it was his 1st read on the play.

    5th - Connor Vernon Duke, Kenny Stiles OU, Terrance Williams BAY, Chris Harper KSU, Jasper Collins MtU, Tavarres King UGA, Ryan Spadola Leigh
    Varying "athlete-to-football player" ratios, various degrees of college production. I feel like each guy can make valuable contributions if a spot can be earned.

    6th - Zach Rogers TN, Darius Johnson SMU
    Small, quick route-runners with excellent hands; a skill-set combo that this team has lacked since Stokely.


    This is not where I predict guys will be drafted.
    This is value with boosters added in for "overall fit". Overall fit means that this guy has skills that we just don't have on the roster.
    This is much more Cosell than Kiper.
    All I did was watch tape...70% game clips, 10% highlights, 20% interviews (that latter category has nothing to do with these rankings, but do play into who I think we may actually draft).
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  3. #18

    Re: WRs

    Great stuff BPR, i was just getting ready to get on and asked you about Rogers. I checked him out the other day and saw some savvy i didnt expect to see, very natural setting up DB's, doesnt seem choppy or like he's thinking too much.




  4. #19

    Re: WRs

    Quote Originally Posted by Carey View Post
    Great stuff BPR, i was just getting ready to get on and asked you about Rogers. I checked him out the other day and saw some savvy i didnt expect to see, very natural setting up DB's, doesnt seem choppy or like he's thinking too much.
    Thanks Carey. I was embarrassed that I didn't see what Rogers was showing me the first time though

    Certainly, Rogers is not the man that Torrey is; but if we are okay with who Rogers is today, and since our FO was stunned that Torrey was available at #57 then we should be equally stunned if Rogers is there at #63.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  5. #20
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    Re: WRs

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    ... then we should be equally stunned if Rogers is there at #63.
    #62 (the Browns and Saints do not have 2nd round picks)... Bc




  6. #21
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    Re: WRs

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    Old Assumption: Boldin and JJ12 will be back and in their 2012 positions (slot and #3/X respectively)

    New Assumption 1: JJ12, Doss and Reed will compete for the "X" (out-wide opposite Torrey)
    New Assumption 2: Caldwell has already designed plays for Austin
    New Assumption 3: We are comfortable with Rogers



    --Swope is here, b/c of his concussion history. Otherwise, he has 3rd round value purely from the slot.
    A question as I am not a very good evaluator of WR's:

    About Ryan Swope- I think I am right that he mainly played slot in college, but with his speed and okay size couldn't he possibly be considered out wider and compete for the X? Again I don't know if this is silly or what...

    Great info you are giving us!




  7. #22

    Re: WRs

    Just watched Nwachukwu for the first time and i came away really impressed, he looks and plays bigger then his listed measurables, looks like he can play inside or outside, smooth strider with good speed and tracks the football. I'd love for Caldwell to get a hold of this guy, ironically he reminds me of Pierre Garcon.




  8. #23

    Re: WRs

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    #62 (the Browns and Saints do not have 2nd round picks)... Bc
    Ah cool. I gotta remember that. Thanks.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carey View Post
    Just watched Nwachukwu for the first time and i came away really impressed, he looks and plays bigger then his listed measurables, looks like he can play inside or outside, smooth strider with good speed and tracks the football. I'd love for Caldwell to get a hold of this guy, ironically he reminds me of Pierre Garcon.
    Good comparison.

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  10. #25

    Re: WRs

    Quote Originally Posted by ursula View Post
    A question as I am not a very good evaluator of WR's:

    About Ryan Swope- I think I am right that he mainly played slot in college, but with his speed and okay size couldn't he possibly be considered out wider and compete for the X? Again I don't know if this is silly or what...

    Great info you are giving us!
    Good question and not silly at all

    Basically, your slot guy needs to be able to find or create space very quickly. So quick feet and quick leg turnover are key. These factors are also key once the reception has been made--running away from the bracketed zone coverage of the OLB and safety.

    Match-up: Many if not most NFL teams are not fortunate enough to have 3rd CB that can well cover quick slot guys. IOW, just b/c they are in that role that doesn't mean that they can perform. With QB accuracy in the NFL, all you need is one step and you are open. The slot WR has a two yard cushion to use to his advantage, and the good ones have most often already "won" the route by their 4th or 5th step (not stride, but step). Watch tape on Welker, Cruz and Colston for this.

    Why not Swope out-wide? In some offenses, he could be positioned there. I think he's quick enough and strong enough. Teams that run 2 TEs quite a bit could also put Swope out-wide. Generally, team-by-team though, it's about the personnel that you already have onboard.

    For us, Torrey is very fast, we know. However, he's a strider, and throttling up and down while settling into holes in the middle zones is not something he will do well. He also doesn't give a good fake, so you want to keep him outside. The ball often comes faster in the slot, or the ball is pretty much right in your face as you turn your head; so you want a good hands catcher. (Note: I just happened to be watching our NYG game right now. Our 1st TD vs. NYG...it was a 6 yard slant from the slot. Joe threw a bullet and Torrey plucked it with his hands. What has to be factored in though is how awful Corey Webster is in coverage, and that NYG was caught in a blitz and Caldwell had the perfect play called.) Until he perfects his route running though, Torrey should be used very conservatively in the slot.

    About JJ12. He's similar to Torrey, but with less effective hands, and not even as quick laterally.

    Boldin worked in the slot, b/c he was the best of three bad options. Down the stretch he was able to create space with his body/strength vs. man, certainly not his feet or speed. The general timing and trust that he had developed with Joe over three years was the perhaps the greatest factor in his/their success down the stretch.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  11. #26

    Re: WRs

    Are we assuming Allen has no chance to get to 32 because I see little discussion...I am also a huge fan of Justin Hunter out of Tennessee who could be anywhere from a 1st to a 2nd rounder...




  12. #27

    Re: WRs

    I think Allen is a terrific athlete and very good with the ball in his hands. I've warmed up to him some since back in Dec and Jan. However, I see him as a 1st round athlete, not a 1st round WR. His injury concerns me. I can only see him falling to 32 if he has a pro day and struggles b/c he's not fully healed/recovered...something unusual like that.

    I've warmed up to Justin Hunter also. Another terrific athlete, but not a terrific receiver. I can't trust his knee though.
    If we take a WR that early, it's a big deal, b/c its a rarity for this franchise. Maybe we'd like a cleaner medical sheet, maybe not.
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  13. #28

    Re: WRs

    I don't get the relative hate for DeAndre Hopkins. He''s not remotely comparable to Tavarres King, for example.

    What are his weaknesses?




  14. #29
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    Re: WRs

    If the Ravens are looking for a underrated, developmental receiver in the mid-rounds, they could do a lot worse than Corey Fuller (VA Tech). He isn't afraid to go over the middle and has decent hands. He could use work on his routes, but he does have serious speed. He doesn't look like your typical "track guy trying to play football".




  15. #30
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    Re: WRs

    Quote Originally Posted by alien bird View Post
    If the Ravens are looking for a underrated, developmental receiver in the mid-rounds, they could do a lot worse than Corey Fuller (VA Tech). He isn't afraid to go over the middle and has decent hands. He could use work on his routes, but he does have serious speed. He doesn't look like your typical "track guy trying to play football".
    Not saying you're wrong, but don't the Ravens already have enough "developmental receivers"? Doss, Streeter, D. Thompson, and LQ Williams, even David Reed ... Bc




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