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Thread: 1984...?

  1. #16
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    Re: 1984...?



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    No, it was basically drone strikes in foreign countries (Yemen, IIRC) that we werent even really engaged with. The issue, as I recall, was basically committing acts of war against other countries without the approval of Congress.

    Wrong or right, there is a process that just doesnt seem to get followed.
    I think debate changes when it's on foreign soil. An unarmed drone flew above UBL's compound the days leading up to his whacking. I am totally OK with that. And just as I'd be fine with a smart bomb being used to take out a terrorist riding down the road in some middle eastern city, ally or not. The War Powers Act and other corresponding acts of Congress gives the President (going all the way back to Kennedy) the power with limited military action sans Congressional approval.

    Now using a drone to take someone out overseas may be a huge diplomatic debacle, but that's another debate.

    When it's our own government, targeting US citizens, it's a completely different ball of wax. Even the biggest crook scum bag in the US deserves due process. That's guaranteed in the Constitution. The prospect of the Executive branch being judge, jury and possibly executioner of US citizens is incredibly chilling and totally unacceptable.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #17
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    Re: 1984...?

    Everyone should check out Rand Paul filibustering and talking about NDAA, he may touch on drones too.

    Good stuff.

    http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN2/
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  3. #18
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    Re: 1984...?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Absolutely.

    A lot of these programs are ridiculously classified too, so it isnt like anything could actually be proven IF civil liberties are being violated.

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    I'd think detecting if I have a gun as I am walking down the street with no other reason than you can, would likely violate the 4th amendment, if only a little.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post

    I'd think detecting if I have a gun as I am walking down the street with no other reason than you can, would likely violate the 4th amendment, if only a little.
    How do you prove that they are though?

    If they're targeting us gun owners, do you honestly believe that information would be made available to the public?

    This is similar to folks claiming the NSA monitors all of our cell phone conversations. Could they? Sure. The technology exists for them to easily do that. Are they? According to them and every other politician, nope and good luck proving otherwise.

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post

    I think debate changes when it's on foreign soil. An unarmed drone flew above UBL's compound the days leading up to his whacking. I am totally OK with that. And just as I'd be fine with a smart bomb being used to take out a terrorist riding down the road in some middle eastern city, ally or not. The War Powers Act and other corresponding acts of Congress gives the President (going all the way back to Kennedy) the power with limited military action sans Congressional approval.

    Now using a drone to take someone out overseas may be a huge diplomatic debacle, but that's another debate.

    When it's our own government, targeting US citizens, it's a completely different ball of wax. Even the biggest crook scum bag in the US deserves due process. That's guaranteed in the Constitution. The prospect of the Executive branch being judge, jury and possibly executioner of US citizens is incredibly chilling and totally unacceptable.
    I guess it depends on one's interpretation of "limited" military action.

    And I agree that the constitution is becoming a meaningless piece of paper with certain aspects.

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  6. #21
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    Re: 1984...?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    How do you prove that they are though?

    If they're targeting us gun owners, do you honestly believe that information would be made available to the public?

    This is similar to folks claiming the NSA monitors all of our cell phone conversations. Could they? Sure. The technology exists for them to easily do that. Are they? According to them and every other politician, nope and good luck proving otherwise.

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    I didn't say you could.

    I would guess you couldn't prove it until someone walks up and says we need to see your gun. WTF! How did you know I have one?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #22
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    Re: 1984...?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    How do you prove that they are though?

    If they're targeting us gun owners, do you honestly believe that information would be made available to the public?

    This is similar to folks claiming the NSA monitors all of our cell phone conversations. Could they? Sure. The technology exists for them to easily do that. Are they? According to them and every other politician, nope and good luck proving otherwise.
    In both cases, it will come down to the outcome.

    If some random Joe at NSA listens to our phone calls, you're right, you wont know it.

    But if some drone sees me with my concealed Glock and then all of a sudden Houston's finest is pulling me aside, asking me about my weapon, I'll know. Thankfully, Texas passed a law banning drones for domestic law enforcement use.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post

    I didn't say you could.

    I would guess you couldn't prove it until someone walks up and says we need to see your gun. WTF! How did you know I have one?
    Even then, they could say they pulled your state registration for ccw and compared it with you driver's license.

    To me, this is the most depressing aspect of all of these things.

    Even if the public wanted to do something, what could they "legally" do?

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  9. #24
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    Re: 1984...?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Even then, they could say they pulled your state registration for ccw and compared it with you driver's license.

    To me, this is the most depressing aspect of all of these things.

    Even if the public wanted to do something, what could they "legally" do?

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Forum Runner
    Okay, we're getting pretty hypothetical, but if someone comes up to me and asked me to see my weapon - For what reason?
    Last edited by NCRAVEN; 03-06-2013 at 02:50 PM. Reason: TYPO -
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  10. #25
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    Re: 1984...?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Even then, they could say they pulled your state registration for ccw and compared it with you driver's license.
    How can they do either if they don't know your name?
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #26
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    Re: 1984...?

    Anybody watching Rand Paul filibuster? I love this guy.

    He says he is trying to get Obama to define what drones can be used for in America on Americans. He thinks he'll fail in his attempt, but it's pretty awesome to listen to this.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  12. #27
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    Re: 1984...?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    How can they do either if they don't know your name?
    Apparently these drones can monitor cell phone signals too. So if the detect HR's cell phone is going down the street and there is a gun on his hip, bingo, you've been identified.

    Again, this is all hypothetical but I would think that's how they know who's who.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  13. #28
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    Re: 1984...?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Apparently these drones can monitor cell phone signals too. So if the detect HR's cell phone is going down the street and there is a gun on his hip, bingo, you've been identified.

    Again, this is all hypothetical but I would think that's how they know who's who.
    Monitoring my cell phone does not equal knowing the account holders info. The cellular providers have done an excellent job at keeping that info to themselves.

    And I am not aware of a drone that's been made that can do both.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  14. #29
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    Re: 1984...?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Monitoring my cell phone does not equal knowing the account holders info. The cellular providers have done an excellent job at keeping that info to themselves.

    And I am not aware of a drone that's been made that can do both.
    It does not equal that, but it's usually a good shot. The Breitbart link, links to a partially redacted report that says they can monitor cell phone signals.

    I would assume they could get the account info if they really wanted it. But do I think they are doing that? No, could they? I don't see how they couldn't.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post

    How can they do either if they don't know your name?
    Assuming they do a database pull on every Texan with a ccw license, which is possible, and they compare that list to every driver's license in Texas, which is also possible...then yes, they could know who you are, where you live, what you drive, and what you look like.

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