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  1. #16
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's



    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    So you think a QB improvising because he's being flushed out of the pocket is the same as a QB improvising on whether to run/pass at the point of attack is the same? LOL. Completely different dynamics at work.
    There's no question the option works but it's only going to take you so far.
    doubt anyone thinks that but thanks for playing
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  2. #17

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    I think his point is that when you remove the novelty of the read option, it still boils down to being able to consistently, accurately throw the ball. That's exactly where Tebow failed, and CK succeeded. My take on GC's piece is that while some folks get all jazzed over the running aspect of the read option, when you strip it all down, it's still about being able to throw, not run, the ball. And I'm not sure the big advocates of the read option are saying that. They are presenting that package as if it's something so new and improved, a QB can compensate for average throwing ability because of the added threat of the run. And it just doesn't work that way. All the "Wildcat" and "Pistol" frenzies that are the fads of the day eventually come back down to earth.

    I also wonder, in addition to the added injury risk factor, if all that running doesn't reduce a QBs throwing accuracy over the course of a game, and a season. The base for the throwing is the legs. And like a boxer, if the legs get weary, the punching accuracy, and in the case of the QB the throwing accuracy, is going to suffer.
    For most QBs I agree. But I don't really see this when watching A-Rod, Big-Ben, or Joe. They're pretty much the same while throwing on the run. Or at least the drop-off is very minimal.
    Self appointed Ravens SuperFan in the southern hemisphere/New Zealand.




  3. #18

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Time will tell if wilson and ck do well or get hurt like rg111. Never should under estimate good NFL defensive coaches, with enough film and people watching the QBs, a defensive scheme will evolve. Anyone remember the wildcat? One year wonders(Newton) had their days, but now have to realize someone is spying on them,waiting for that big hit. I think wilson,ck,and rg111 will win some games and lose others do to their playing style. A great defense will eat these guys up and hurt them physically. Green bay s defense fell apart with ck and he had a great game. Ravens defense did well until ngata left, but ck threw 3 passes with no completions to lose the game on the last drive. Inexperience maybe, good defensive scheme for sure. Against a defense not rated in the top 10,with a new DC.




  4. #19
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    I think his point is that when you remove the novelty of the read option, it still boils down to being able to consistently, accurately throw the ball. That's exactly where Tebow failed, and CK succeeded. My take on GC's piece is that while some folks get all jazzed over the running aspect of the read option, when you strip it all down, it's still about being able to throw, not run, the ball. And I'm not sure the big advocates of the read option are saying that. They are presenting that package as if it's something so new and improved, a QB can compensate for average throwing ability because of the added threat of the run. And it just doesn't work that way. All the "Wildcat" and "Pistol" frenzies that are the fads of the day eventually come back down to earth.

    I also wonder, in addition to the added injury risk factor, if all that running doesn't reduce a QBs throwing accuracy over the course of a game, and a season. The base for the throwing is the legs. And like a boxer, if the legs get weary, the punching accuracy, and in the case of the QB the throwing accuracy, is going to suffer.
    Average throwing ability? Yeah, I think the read option offense can "compensate" for that, in the sense that it makes the defense focus on multiple things as opposed to having a Kaepernick or Wilson just be a straight drop back pocket passer. But below average or just inadequate passer? No.




  5. #20

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Average throwing ability? Yeah, I think the read option offense can "compensate" for that, in the sense that it makes the defense focus on multiple things as opposed to having a Kaepernick or Wilson just be a straight drop back pocket passer. But below average or just inadequate passer? No.
    Well...how would you assess Vick's throwing ability? To me, he was an average thrower, and an above average runner -- for a QB. And throughout his career, he was always able to generate yards running, and to a certain extent passing as well. But he never achieved greatness anywhere he played, aside from the hype surrounding him. And to me, it's because he was an average passer (not below average like Tebow) and that was always his Achilles heel. And no amount of optioning could compensate for it.




  6. #21

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    doubt anyone thinks that but thanks for playing
    Then don't bring Big Ben into the conversation....




  7. #22
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Well...how would you assess Vick's throwing ability? To me, he was an average thrower, and an above average runner -- for a QB. And throughout his career, he was always able to generate yards running, and to a certain extent passing as well. But he never achieved greatness anywhere he played, aside from the hype surrounding him. And to me, it's because he was an average passer (not below average like Tebow) and that was always his Achilles heel. And no amount of optioning could compensate for it.
    Vick hasn't played in a read option system.




  8. #23
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Well the 49ers were one defensed pass away from a Superbowl title.
    Yes.

    I don't see any merit in the notion that there's only one way to win in the NFL.




  9. #24
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post
    Time will tell if wilson and ck do well or get hurt like rg111. Never should under estimate good NFL defensive coaches, with enough film and people watching the QBs, a defensive scheme will evolve. Anyone remember the wildcat? One year wonders(Newton) had their days, but now have to realize someone is spying on them,waiting for that big hit. I think wilson,ck,and rg111 will win some games and lose others do to their playing style. A great defense will eat these guys up and hurt them physically. Green bay s defense fell apart with ck and he had a great game. Ravens defense did well until ngata left, but ck threw 3 passes with no completions to lose the game on the last drive. Inexperience maybe, good defensive scheme for sure. Against a defense not rated in the top 10,with a new DC.
    Comparing the read option to the wildcat is asinine.




  10. #25

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Vick hasn't played in a read option system.
    To me the difference is not whether it's the Wildcat, Read Option, Pistol, etc. It's whether the QB has the arm to make the throws. So whether it's Vick, Vince Young, CK, or whoever...either the QB can consistently make the throws or he can't. And everything else is irrelevant. Vick could never do that. Neither could Young. And to date, in the long history of the NFL, no one has been able to successfully succeed going that route. Does it mean it'll never happen? Of course not. But if/when it does, it'll be because the QB was an accurate thrower consistently over time.




  11. #26

    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by Brien Jackson View Post
    Comparing the read option to the wildcat is asinine.
    Why is that?




  12. #27
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    Then don't bring Big Ben into the conversation....
    perhaps you should read the article or the quote that I mentioned, or just continue blathering
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  13. #28
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Yes.

    I don't see any merit in the notion that there's only one way to win in the NFL.
    Kaepernick was THROWING the ball well to get to that position. If he couldn't throw, teams would just stack the box and concentrate on stopping the run and play exclusively zone defense.




  14. #29
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    To me the difference is not whether it's the Wildcat, Read Option, Pistol, etc. It's whether the QB has the arm to make the throws. So whether it's Vick, Vince Young, CK, or whoever...either the QB can consistently make the throws or he can't. And everything else is irrelevant. Vick could never do that. Neither could Young. And to date, in the long history of the NFL, no one has been able to successfully succeed going that route. Does it mean it'll never happen? Of course not. But if/when it does, it'll be because the QB was an accurate thrower consistently over time.
    But the read option is a designed running system. It's materially different than a QB like Vick who's scrambling around a lot.




  15. #30
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    Re: Great cosell column on qb's

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Why is that?
    because the read option is just a different way of running a fundamentally sound offense. You've got your QB taking the snap, you can throw from all of your formations, you can run entirely conventional running plays from the system, throw play action passes, and what have you. The wildcat, on the other hand, often involves a WR/RB taking the snap, negating the ability to throw an otherwise normal passing play, and is a bona fide gimmick that, even when it was working, couldn't serve as the foundation of an offensive attack.




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