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  1. #31
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?



    For the life of me I can't figure out how it is that people actually think that there's a strong correlation between payroll size and winning in baseball. I mean, haven't any of you ever met a damn Cubs fan? And if not, can you tell me your secret?

    Seriously though, since you have to have six years of service time to qualify for free agency in baseball, the teams with the really high payrolls are generally either loading their team up with veterans in or heading into their decline years or drastically overpaying their own players because they have the money to do it/they overrate those guys. C.f.e. Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, hell even Mariano Rivera. On the flip side of things, good front offices generally don't have much of a problem loading their team up with young talent and winning with low budgets thanks to the cost control effects of the pre-free agency period (though the new cap on draft signing bonuses will probably put an end to that).

    As far as football goes, lifting the cap would probably create a fair bit of chaos in terms of working out contracts, but it almost certainly wouldn't create any meaningful competitive balance changes. First and foremost, players are still going to get hurt/break down physically (especially non-QBs), and having a higher payroll isn't going to make you any less likely to get bit by the injury bug. Secondly, football's competitive balance really comes from the fact that they're drafting pro-ready players, many of whom can come in and make a big impact right away, which makes handing out huge sums of money to players old enough to be eligible for free agency a wildly inefficient strategy even if there isn't a cap in place.

    I'd say the most notable change for a team like the Ravens is that Bisciotti would probably put up hefty one-year deals for players like Ed Reed and Todd Heap to be sure they stayed with the Ravens for their whole career.




  2. #32
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Look back to the NFLs pre-cap era of the 90s and see who won all the SBs - Dallas, SF, Skins, etc. The teams with the biggest spenders. Nasty had Bisciotti on his show shortly after he became the owner. Steve said his wife always thought he'd buy the O;s.
    He said hell no. There is no incentive for a baseball owner to succeed because there is no cap, no pooling etc like in football where small market teams like Pissburgh and Bmore can win with smart organizations.

    WE'RE 32 OF THE BIGGEST SOCIALISTS IN SPORTS. ART MODELL

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  3. #33
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Speaking of baseball and the Yankees, there's a cool movie out on cable called MONEY BALL. It's all about that and Billy Bean who took the OAK As and almost beat the Yanks like the Os did last summer.

    That year the Yanks had a payroll of $150M and As had a payroll of $39M and almost beat them. Cool baseball movie.

    Also, speaking of the Yanks, here's how stupid New Yorkers are. The word Yankee comes from the Dutch word Yak which means slimey scum, hill billy, redneck. That's what the Dutch called the British when they were run out of NY. Then when the Americans acted up the Briitish Anglonized the word to Yankee and insulted the Americans with it.

    New YOrkers didn't know what the word actually meant and ran with the ball and adopted it's name with Yankee Doddle Dandy and the New York Yankees. So next time you see a Yankee fan, mention it to him. He won' know what the hell you're talking about. LOL




  4. #34
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Look back to the NFLs pre-cap era of the 90s and see who won all the SBs - Dallas, SF, Skins, etc. The teams with the biggest spenders.
    Well, there was no free agency then either.




  5. #35
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Andre Rison of the Browns makes #4 on the list of worse free agent signings of the 90s.Worse still, was the cash-strapped Modell had to beg, borrow and steal every penny to sign him at $17M in 1995. Art thought so much of him he left him behind when he moved the Browns to Bmore-lol.


    http://www.therichest.org/video/4-an...gent-signings/

    This list drops Rison down a little but look who's 3rd worse of all time - our own AD Thomas who was one of Bellicheat's biggest mistakes. He cut AD the day after the 2010 DRaft-lol.

    And our SB 35 hero Duan Starks makes the list several spots later. He was often injured in Arizona.


    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...history/page/3
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 03-07-2013 at 12:53 AM.




  6. #36

    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Quote Originally Posted by blacknpurplepain View Post
    It's been proven that you can't buy championships in Pro sports.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk
    That has been "proven" yes, but for as many times as it has, it has been "proven" more times that you can't underspend and win championships.




  7. #37

    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post

    look who's 3rd worse of all time - our own AD Thomas who was one of Bellicheat's biggest mistakes. He cut AD the day after the 2010 DRaft-lol.


    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...history/page/3
    You do know that this list came from the "Bleacher Report", authored by the "world famous" Tony Santorsa. Not a fans' vote, not a players or coaches vote, not even an input from sportwriters.

    That stated, I still find the Adalius Thomas story to be incredible. He was a huge part of our team's defense and special teams in the mid 2000's, then disappeared in Foxboro. Defensive schemes? Hit in the head? Drugs?

    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  8. #38
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Quote Originally Posted by HKusp View Post
    That has been "proven" yes, but for as many times as it has, it has been "proven" more times that you can't underspend and win championships.
    It's correlation, not causation. Everyone always points to the outlying argument to disprove the trend. e.g. "See, the Rays won a World Series with a low payroll" or "Look, the Cubs spend and they NEVER win." But overall, there is a correlation between how much money a team spends and how likely they are to make the playoffs.

    The top payrolls are the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Angels, and Tigers. Playoff appearances in the last five years: 18

    The bottom payrolls are the Padres, A's, Astros, Royals, and Pirates. Playoff appearances in the last five years: 1

    Seems like a correlation to me.
    "Leave. Your. Mark."




  9. #39
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Lots of great observations and comments from many on this thread. Just to add a couple thoughts--

    Whether anyone likes it or not, the NFL is really "big business", not simply home town sports anymore. That equates to a bottom line - $$$$!!!!

    The league has evolved and adopted a certain business model which has proven pretty successful. While it's in each franchise's best interest to win the Super Bowl each year, it's not in their, or the league's, best interest to have a franchise "fail", at least to the level where the franchise goes out of business.

    I think it remains to be seen over time if the CAP and new CBA and evolution of other issues (concussions, long term player health, CAP limitations, etc. -- just quick examples off the top of my head, but there are many more) will cause the NFL to modify their model to any great degree.

    To address the thread title question, all things currently being equal, I think that if the NFL were uncapped, it would very possibly be the beginning of the end. Just one guy's opinion...




  10. #40
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Quote Originally Posted by HotInHere View Post
    It's correlation, not causation. Everyone always points to the outlying argument to disprove the trend. e.g. "See, the Rays won a World Series with a low payroll" or "Look, the Cubs spend and they NEVER win." But overall, there is a correlation between how much money a team spends and how likely they are to make the playoffs.

    The top payrolls are the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Angels, and Tigers. Playoff appearances in the last five years: 18

    The bottom payrolls are the Padres, A's, Astros, Royals, and Pirates. Playoff appearances in the last five years: 1

    Seems like a correlation to me.
    There's a chicken and egg element to it too, however. Note that the second group includes Houston, which is hardly some sort of poor pathetic small market team, and the former includes Detroit, which is hardly a financial giant within MLB. What's the difference between the two teams? Detroit developed a very good core of young players that made them contenders, and their rich aging owner decided to plow a bunch of money into payroll because he really wants to win the World Series before he dies. The Astros, on the other hand, pretty much fell apart after the mid-aughts, the old owner sold the team, and now new management is just stripping down a shit roster to the bare bones as they begin to rebuild.

    Which is just a long way of saying that, in many cases, the winning comes before the payroll starts to really go up, and losing teams generally don't find themselves drastically increasing payroll by spending on a ton of free agents.




  11. #41

    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Brien.....are you a Yankees fan? Be honest.




  12. #42
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Quote Originally Posted by WaccoFlacco View Post
    Brien.....are you a Yankees fan? Be honest.
    Nominally. But after ~3 years of writing about baseball the specific fandoms tend to wear off.




  13. #43
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    You do know that this list came from the "Bleacher Report", authored by the "world famous" Tony Santorsa. Not a fans' vote, not a players or coaches vote, not even an input from sportwriters.

    That stated, I still find the Adalius Thomas story to be incredible. He was a huge part of our team's defense and special teams in the mid 2000's, then disappeared in Foxboro. Defensive schemes? Hit in the head? Drugs?


    Yea T but it served my purpose that Risen was a FA in 1995 so he was spot on for once. The AD and Starks thing was opinionated and spot on too. Starks never amounted to anything after he left the nest and neither did AD.

    Remember that guy over on Ravenstalk.com who was ADs PR man and he even wrote a book for McCreary called Motor Man? He
    clearly criticized AD on the board for his attitude when AD left for Boston. Its the system as Kruger the Beast will be the most recent former Raven to learn that.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 03-07-2013 at 11:53 PM.




  14. #44
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    The proof is in the pudding.

    The Yankee payroll for 2013 for 21 players is $208M with average salary @ $9.9M pr player, which is why they win the division every year. So much for the 6 yr rule.



    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/co...tion/?team=NYA


    Orioles payroll is under the Ravens at $80M and it's the 18th highest payroll in baseball compared to the Yankees $200M or so. Link below lists it @ $195M.

    Pirates are much lower than that but note big spenders at top 5 like Tigers who got to the series spending $120M - more than the O's. The big spenders rule in baseball with no cap.

    Also note A-Rods $29M salary and Mark Teix from Bmore at $23M while O's Markakis is @ $12M and Roberts @ $10M.
    Yup, you can say something about loading up with vets-lol.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/salaries...timore-orioles
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 03-07-2013 at 11:55 PM.




  15. #45
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    Re: If the NFL were uncapped...?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    The proof is in the pudding.

    The Yankee payroll for 2013 for 21 players is $208M with average salary @ $9.9M pr player, which is why they win the division every year.
    But of the six divisions in baseball, only two (the A.L. East and A.L. Central), were won by the team with the division's highest payroll. That's the same number of division titles that went to the team with the LOWEST payroll in the division (A.L. West and N.L. East). And then you had the N.L. Central, where the teams in the two largest markets

    Having a lot of money to spend in MLB is basically the equivalent of having a franchise QB in the NFL, it can make you relevant consistently, but you've still got to know what you're doing with it. Though that said, there are actually teams in MLB who have built $100 million atrocities and not only been bad in the short term, but destroyed the team's chances of being good for 5-10 year spans (the Cubs and the Mets most notably). NFL teams with a franchise quarterback type might not make the playoffs every year, but they're almost never truly BAD.




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