All Things Draft:

**bmorecareful** · 03-18-2013, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it all based on the contract?

Contract size, number of starts, and postseason honors (Pro Bowl/All Pro, etc) are the factors I'm aware of that are used in the formula. Contract size I believe is weighted most heavily. "How much a team was messed up" doesn't really factor in, but if it did I don't think the loss of Jarret Johnson was much of a factor for the Ravens. He was ably replaced by Upshaw/Kruger and went on to have his worst season as a pro in San Diego.

We'll likely get a 5th for him but only because he made 15 starts and signed a decent-sized contract. Mario Williams, on the other hand, signed a humongous contract--5th highest paid player in the NFL by average and 1st highest DE. He didn't get any postseason honors but I think the contract size alone is enough to get Houston a 3rd in all likelihood.

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 03-18-2013, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Contract size, number of starts, and postseason honors (Pro Bowl/All Pro, etc) are the factors I'm aware of that are used in the formula. Contract size I believe is weighted most heavily. "How much a team was messed up" doesn't really factor in, but if it did I don't think the loss of Jarret Johnson was much of a factor for the Ravens. He was ably replaced by Upshaw/Kruger and went on to have his worst season as a pro in San Diego.

We'll likely get a 5th for him but only because he made 15 starts and signed a decent-sized contract. Mario Williams, on the other hand, signed a humongous contract--5th highest paid player in the NFL by average and 1st highest DE. He didn't get any postseason honors but I think the contract size alone is enough to get Houston a 3rd in all likelihood.

Given that you're absolutely right. Thanks for the clarification bmore. Should probably do my research first haha

**BigPlayReceiver** · 03-18-2013, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

What's your take on Harper btw? I heard the Ravens are very interested in him. He reminds me of AnQuan Boldin.

Watched two or three games last night. Harper is close to Boldin but not the 25 year old version, the 32 year old version. Routes, footwork, acceleration and escapability are each average. I'm not sure what the draw is from our FO is we are indeed looking at him closely.

**BcRaven** · 03-18-2013, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

I still don't understand why no one thinks they didn't do that last year when they drafted a Tackle in the 2nd round. KO is never discussed as that LT by the fans. I doubt the coaching staff sees him that way.

Not so my friend. I've been advocating KO to be tried @ LT since he was drafted. Some have mocked my idea, but I'm sticking to it. I'd surely like the team to see if he can hack it during the off-season, even though it's very hard to do. I don't want to see Oher over there anymore, what's the point? ... Bc

**lordravens** · 03-19-2013, 01:14 AM

[QUOTE=BcRaven;605560]Not so my friend. I've been advocating KO to be tried @ LT since he was drafted. Some have mocked my idea, but I'm sticking to it. I'd surely like the team to see if he can hack it during the off-season, even though it's very hard to do. I don't want to see Oher over there anymore, what's the point? ... Bc[/QUOTE

WNST:Ryan NFL Network's Brian Baldinger-dialed in to Ravens consultant Juan Castillo in the Philly area-said they may explore Osemele at LT.

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 03-19-2013, 01:33 AM

All I'm going to say is I like Osemele at LT over Oher at LT. Start being realistic people. We can't just grab a franchise LT at the snap of a finger.

**wickedsolo** · 03-19-2013, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

Watched two or three games last night. Harper is close to Boldin but not the 25 year old version, the 32 year old version. Routes, footwork, acceleration and escapability are each average. I'm not sure what the draw is from our FO is we are indeed looking at him closely.

I agree. Harper is interesting...but at 6' and 235lbs, he may not be a good fit as a WR. I know the guy is stocky and has some muscle to him, but that weight at that height doesn't scream "fluid" to me.

Maybe he would come here as an H-Back/FB type of guy? Like Darrell Young with the Redskins?

**wickedsolo** · 03-19-2013, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by runrayrun27

All I'm going to say is I like Osemele at LT over Oher at LT. Start being realistic people. We can't just grab a franchise LT at the snap of a finger.

I like the idea of giving him a shot at it.

Here's the thing though...he had some trouble with perimeter blocking at RT against speed rushers. That's not going to change at LT. It's not like he is going to be facing off against bruising bull-rush guys at LT. Some guys may have the size, but they don't have the foot speed and agility to play on the edge. KO - judging from last year - seems to be one of those guys. Plus, the kid was playing LG at a pro-bowl level. Why mess with that?

Oher, on the other hand, does have the foot speed and agility to play on the perimeter, but he doesn't have the size. Oher definitely seems to be more comfortable on the right side.

OT (not just LT) is hard to find these days.

At the end of the day, this is where Jim Caldwell is going to have the most impact IMO. Oher's last game at LT (the Giants) was the 2nd week of Caldwell's play calling and Oher looked the best he had all season long. Why? Because Caldwell and Flacco were running an offense designed to get the ball out quicker and not taking 7-9 step drops and throwing it 80 yards down the field to a covered receiver. It is going to be a lot easier for Oher (or whoever) to hold down the LT and RT position when Flacco is getting rid of the ball in 3 or 4 seconds instead of 8 or 9 seconds.

Scheme baby, Scheme.

**ursula** · 03-19-2013, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I agree. Harper is interesting...but at 6' and 235lbs, he may not be a good fit as a WR. I know the guy is stocky and has some muscle to him, but that weight at that height doesn't scream "fluid" to me.

Maybe he would come here as an H-Back/FB type of guy? Like Darrell Young with the Redskins?

I would love Chris Harper as a day 3 pick. I've watched him since his freshman year at Oregon when he was signed to play QB then converted to WR. Tough guy with more speed then some mockers seem to realize. Definitely a WR with lots of potential-which means he's still raw. Could develop into an ace possession WR with a QB who has a real arm like Flacco as opposed to his college QB, Klein.

**bmorecareful** · 03-19-2013, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I like the idea of giving him a shot at it.

Here's the thing though...he had some trouble with perimeter blocking at RT against speed rushers. That's not going to change at LT. It's not like he is going to be facing off against bruising bull-rush guys at LT. Some guys may have the size, but they don't have the foot speed and agility to play on the edge. KO - judging from last year - seems to be one of those guys. Plus, the kid was playing LG at a pro-bowl level. Why mess with that?

Oher, on the other hand, does have the foot speed and agility to play on the perimeter, but he doesn't have the size. Oher definitely seems to be more comfortable on the right side.

OT (not just LT) is hard to find these days.

At the end of the day, this is where Jim Caldwell is going to have the most impact IMO. Oher's last game at LT (the Giants) was the 2nd week of Caldwell's play calling and Oher looked the best he had all season long. Why? Because Caldwell and Flacco were running an offense designed to get the ball out quicker and not taking 7-9 step drops and throwing it 80 yards down the field to a covered receiver. It is going to be a lot easier for Oher (or whoever) to hold down the LT and RT position when Flacco is getting rid of the ball in 3 or 4 seconds instead of 8 or 9 seconds.

Scheme baby, Scheme.

Good post. I think people get caught up in misconceptions about Oher. I personally don't think his problems are physical at all. He lacks the ideal length you look for in a LT, but there are plenty of sub-6'6" tall, sub-34" arm length guys who succeed at LT in the league. Oher has 33 1/2" arms. Joe Thomas (best LT in the league) has 33 3/4" arms... virtually insignificant difference. Chris Samuels, Matt Light, Jordan Gross, Jason Peters, Michael Roos... all some of the best LTs of the past decade that have as short or shorter arms than Oher.

Most of those guys can make up for their lack of length with technique, foot speed, and athleticism. Oher has GREAT feet and he's our most athletic lineman, so he has those qualities you look for in a LT. Apart from arm length he's really physically a fine specimen. But his technique is still extremely sloppy--too many wasted steps, doesn't use his hands consistently enough in pass pro, etc. and by FAR Oher's biggest problem is he simply makes too many mental mistakes.

Oher could still be a good (maybe not great NFL LT) despite his lack of ideal measurables. I'm HOPING that Castillo can coach the kid up to get his brain up to speed with his body, but I'm certainly not betting on that. After 4 years in the league sometimes my jaw is still on the floor how often Oher allows a pass rusher to run right by him, or takes a terrible false step on his kick-out, or overcompensates so much outside that by the time he gets to the edge he's almost falling over. I hope some of that can change.

**wickedsolo** · 03-19-2013, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by ursula

I would love Chris Harper as a day 3 pick. I've watched him since his freshman year at Oregon when he was signed to play QB then converted to WR. Tough guy with more speed then some mockers seem to realize. Definitely a WR with lots of potential-which means he's still raw. Could develop into an ace possession WR with a QB who has a real arm like Flacco as opposed to his college QB, Klein.

He has good straight line speed, but that speed (from what I have seen) seems to dissipate quite a bit when he is asked to cut and change direction while running routes.

**wickedsolo** · 03-19-2013, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Good post. I think people get caught up in misconceptions about Oher. I personally don't think his problems are physical at all. He lacks the ideal length you look for in a LT, but there are plenty of sub-6'6" tall, sub-34" arm length guys who succeed at LT in the league. Oher has 33 1/2" arms. Joe Thomas (best LT in the league) has 33 3/4" arms... virtually insignificant difference. Chris Samuels, Matt Light, Jordan Gross, Jason Peters, Michael Roos... all some of the best LTs of the past decade that have as short or shorter arms than Oher.

Most of those guys can make up for their lack of length with technique, foot speed, and athleticism. Oher has GREAT feet and he's our most athletic lineman, so he has those qualities you look for in a LT. Apart from arm length he's really physically a fine specimen. But his technique is still extremely sloppy--too many wasted steps, doesn't use his hands consistently enough in pass pro, etc. and by FAR Oher's biggest problem is he simply makes too many mental mistakes.

Oher could still be a good (maybe not great NFL LT) despite his lack of ideal measurables. I'm HOPING that Castillo can coach the kid up to get his brain up to speed with his body, but I'm certainly not betting on that. After 4 years in the league sometimes my jaw is still on the floor how often Oher allows a pass rusher to run right by him, or takes a terrible false step on his kick-out, or overcompensates so much outside that by the time he gets to the edge he's almost falling over. I hope some of that can change.

Castillo could certainly do a lot to increase Oher's awareness levels.