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  1. #361


    If ya want to try KO at LT then trade back for Pugh to fill LG and have some RT depth too, or take Jones, Winters, Frederick or Schwenke later. Three of those four guys give you C competition/depth too. A bit later you can have Quessenberry for T and G depth.

    If you want competition at LT no matter who is there then trade back for Armstud and look again at the the five names above.

    Armstud, Winters and Schwenke would be a sick Draft for strengthening the OL.
    Back to the AFCCG we go. So get ready!

    Team MVP to-date: Rick Wagner and C.J. Mosley (tie)

    Having fun talking football on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  2. #362
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    Re: All Things Draft:

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    If ya want to try KO at LT then trade back for Pugh to fill LG and have some RT depth too, or take Jones, Winters, Frederick or Schwenke later. Three of those four guys give you C competition/depth too. A bit later you can have Quessenberry for T and G depth.

    If you want competition at LT no matter who is there then trade back for Armstud and look again at the the five names above.

    Armstud, Winters and Schwenke would be a sick Draft for strengthening the OL.
    Perhaps the best move the Ravens could make in terms of the offensive line is to draft Barrett Jones in round 2. Then, if the other targeted players simply are not good value, the Ravens are not walking away with a hole. Jones could conceivably play any place on the line. Jones at LT is probably not the best scenario, but it would provide an option for the Ravens. Sure, it would be awesome to end up with three stud linemen on draft day, but grabbing Jones take off that pressure.

    Oh, and Schwenke around #130 would be pretty solid, too, (but I think he goes earlier after the combine results). He started out as a guard at Cal so there is also the flexibility factor to consider.




  3. #363
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    Re: All Things Draft:

    Alec Ogletree plays with plenty of physicality when he has a clear shot at a RB or WR. However, the moment he has to sift through any type of garbage and can't use his speed to slice through, he looks like a completely different player.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  4. #364
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    Re: All Things Draft:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Alec Ogletree plays with plenty of physicality when he has a clear shot at a RB or WR. However, the moment he has to sift through any type of garbage and can't use his speed to slice through, he looks like a completely different player.
    You can coach that IMO. You can't coach someone to become more athletic and cover. Ogletree has the most upside because he hasn't been playing the position all that long and already is playing at a high level with some concerns. I think if he can be coached up in run support, he can turn out to be something special, but that is a slight IF.

    I would probably slightly prefer Sio Moore or Arthur Brown because they showed more of a physical edge to their game on film, and don't appear to have any character issues. I also like Kevin Minter, but would rather take him at 62. The only guy I'd consider at 32 is probably Arthur Brown.

    The good news for us either way is that a high percentage of 2nd round picks on ILBs through the last few years have been highly successful picks for teams.




  5. #365

    Re: All Things Draft:

    I think there are legit arguments on both sides of spectrum on Ogletree and it's not just the taking on blockers thing. I think every aspect of him being an inside LB in this defense would need work, to the point where i dont think he could start opening day as a rookie.

    For instance take the South Carolina game, he was all over the place, and not in the good way lol. He took some bad angles, fooled and left out of position versus play action, and he's inconsistent attacking blockers inside the box and doesnt use his hands a lot. These are instinctual ILB things you expect to be more sound for a guy your gonna take early.

    With all that said he's just so athletic, good in coverage with so much upside that you think if you get him and coach him up you could have a pro bowl guy. With where the game is evolving he could develop into a special piece of your defense that can give you so much flexibility. Imagine him versus Hernandez and Gronk, or versus Kaep and the pistol offfense, or RG3 or Russell Wilson. Imagine if he was available to cover Vernon Davis in the Super Bowl, we're probably looking at a route.

    The league is just gonna mimic these things more and more and he can spearhead the defense of those things because if he develops he's not just a nickel, he never has to come off the field.

    From a physicality standpoint i think he has that, when he was on path to the draft he admitted that he needs to use his hands a lot more and his coaches have been on him about it. The other intricate things about the position i think he's gonna need alot of coaching. It's gonna be very interesting but i think people that argue for and against drafting him are both right in a sense. With where the game is going now i lean towards taking him as long as he checks out character wise but there are risks there.




  6. #366
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    Re: All Things Draft:

    Leach and I just have a fundamental difference of opinion on this. We both see the same thing. We just have slightly different opinions of why we see it and whether or not it can be fixed with coaching.

    That's the beauty of scouting. That's really what we are doing right now. Yet, while both of us look at the exact same games available online, we come away with different opinions. I had a similar situation with NCRaven in regards to Kevin Minter where I was more supportive, while he was more critical.

    In this case, I think there is an emotional unwillingness to take on the dirty work, in Ogletree's game, that can't be coached into someone. I believe it's a mentality. Either you have it or you don't. Leach believes that it is the result of uncomfortableness on Ogletree's part, due to lack of familiarity with the position.

    Years down the road, Leach and I will both look back at this and one of us will likely be right. However, somewhere out there, these are the types of decisions that get people fired if they miss.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  7. #367
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    Re: All Things Draft:

    Personally, I think that Ogletree would be best suited for a cover 2 heavy scheme. Cincinnati runs it and Dallas is about to start running it.

    I think that if you put him in that scheme, you get what you pay for. However, if you try to make him a thumper in a 3-4, he might not do as well and it won't necessarily be his fault.

    It's crazy how that works. The system that a player is placed into plays such a major role in their development. As soon as Stephen Hill was drafted by the Jets, for example, I knew that he'll probably be released in 2-3 years. He was a much better fit for Cameron's system and Flacco's arm. It was bad enough that he needed quite a bit of polishing coming out of Georgia Tech. Then, he ends up in New York. The poor young man might be traumatized before it's all over.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  8. #368

    Re: All Things Draft:

    Well said Ex, i think you nailed the precise question the Ravens will have to ask themselves re: Ogletree. When you look at the roster as it stands i think the Ravens have several thumper/mike candidates. They have a glaring need for a rangy will. Brown, Alonso, Sio Moore are the 3 main guys i look at being a fit in that regard. All are rangy but attack the line of scrimmage hard and have shown better sorting thru trash. Ogletree is the wildcard. He could be special, he could make this defense special because of the flexibility he create. He also could be 1st round nickel LB if drafted to play in a 34 as opposed to playing in a 43 on the weakside.




  9. #369
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    Re: All Things Draft:

    I can see why people view Kevin Reddick as a guy for Ellerbe's role. He's better off with simple assignments, blitz the middle and take on blockers inside. He has no real edge rushing skill and he doesn't have high quality edge rushing speed. So, once hands are laid on him, he's done. He has some coverage instincts, which is a good thing. However, he doesn't handle misdirection well at all and his tackling is inconsistent.

    Kiko Alonso just looks like a natural read-and-react football player. He has great closing speed, good timing and instincts. The one problem that I see with him is that he has a real change of direction problem. He doesn't miss many tackles, but he'll miss some opportunities for tackles when he has to change direction. If you could take Jon Bostic's change of direction and put it in Alonso, you'd have a first round talent.

    I don't think he's a day 1 starter, but he could develop into a starter for 2014.

    Sio Moore will be, in my opinion, the steal of the draft. Moore has it all. He just needs to get stronger. Most players do need to get stronger to deal with NFL level competition. Moore would definitely be a day 1 starter in Ray's spot. I don't care what round he's drafted in. Since some teams may view him as a 4-3 OLB, I'm not sure where he'll be drafted. I don't care where the Ravens take him, as long as they take him.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  10. #370
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    Re: All Things Draft:

    Great posts folks! I love reading the different viewpoints here.




  11. #371
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    Re: All Things Draft:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Leach and I just have a fundamental difference of opinion on this. We both see the same thing. We just have slightly different opinions of why we see it and whether or not it can be fixed with coaching.

    That's the beauty of scouting. That's really what we are doing right now. Yet, while both of us look at the exact same games available online, we come away with different opinions. I had a similar situation with NCRaven in regards to Kevin Minter where I was more supportive, while he was more critical.

    In this case, I think there is an emotional unwillingness to take on the dirty work, in Ogletree's game, that can't be coached into someone. I believe it's a mentality. Either you have it or you don't. Leach believes that it is the result of uncomfortableness on Ogletree's part, due to lack of familiarity with the position.

    Years down the road, Leach and I will both look back at this and one of us will likely be right. However, somewhere out there, these are the types of decisions that get people fired if they miss.
    Yeah good post, and we'll see. I agree that he needs to seriously improve his work in and around the trenches. I just think when you have Ngata at NT infront of you as well as Canty, Sizzle and Doom, you don't really have to be the best run stuffers in the world at LB, which is why I like Sio Moore, he is physical enough but not a thumper per se, incredibly athletic though.

    At least we both like Minter, and are not high on Te'o at all.




  12. #372

    Re: All Things Draft:

    Kevin Reddick has really grown more and more on me the more I watch him.

    He is basically a poor mans Donte Hightower...they used him everywhere and he made plays everywhere.

    I don't think he lasts until our final pick in the 3rd round though. That's the thing about picking 32...I'd LOVE to be picking there every year, but every pick of ours might as well be one of the first picks in the following round.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




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