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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?



    Just like the GSH initials on the sleeves of the Chicago Bears that commemorates George S. Halas, should the "Art" patch on the Ravens jersey serve as a campaign for Art Modell's contributions to NFL history?




  2. Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    Yes.




  3. #3

    Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    No. There's a special place in my heart for Artie giving us football back, and I understand why he left Cleveland, but he was also a flawed figure in some ways. I don't think we need a perpetual thing on our jerseys to commemorate him. We didn't do it for Johnny Unitas. The Orioles haven't done it for more than a season for any of their greats. I think one year is sufficient- that's the standard, and to go beyond that implicitly diminishes the tributes we've done and will do for other people associated with the franchise when they pass away and are honored for a single season. We'll continue to remember him with a banner in the stadium (two actually, since they're replicated on each side) in the Ring of Honor with our retired greats and Earnest Byner (Who really belongs in the Redskins Ring of Honor, if they have one, not our's).

    I also don't like the idea of lobbying for the Hall of Fame plaque with a uniform patch. I love the guy, Baltimore loves the guy, he did a ton for this league with television; there's a case he belongs in the Hall. There's also a case that no one who relocates a franchise from a city that loves it should be in the Hall of Fame also, and I think that's fair as a consideration, though there were a lot of mitigating circumstances in this case (i.e. Cleveland built the Indians a stadium and a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, leaving Modell to bleed money at the mistake by the lake- and it was the only way the biggest mistake the NFL has ever made, moving the Colts was even going to be partially remedied [since expansion was closed to us and other franchises only toyed with us when it came to relocation], not to mention that Cleveland got their name and colors and history back [We're still waiting for our's 30 years later]). Let the voters sort it out. Trying to push the idea with a patch that's worn year after year on our uniforms is more likely to annoy voters than sway them- it's like giving them the finger or something.




  4. #4

    Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    I say yes too. Why not? Without him, I do not have what is honestly one of the more enjoyable parts of my life, the Baltimore Ravens.
    Thoughts on Ray Rice: http://brafootball.wordpress.com/




  5. #5
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    Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    No. These are one year things. you have a respectful period of mourning, but life moves on.

    Otherwise, every club legend who dies (and they all will, eventually) you end up with another patch with no real rule or protocol for removing it, and you end up with a NASCAR looking uniform. Nobody, no matter how legendary, overshadows the team on the field.

    Look at old, established teams in any sport. Boston Celtics, Manchester United, New York Yankees. You don't see a "BR" or "LG" patch on the Yankees, do you? Manchester United lost almost its entire team in a plane crash in the 50s, and it was a great team. No, you have to cut it at one year, because in any given year, you have no idea what horrible thing will happen. You honor, memorialize, then move people into a special section -- team hall of fame, ring of honor, what have you. But it has to come off the uniform. You have to move on, no matter what.
    No one likes us, and we don't care.




  6. #6
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    Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    No. These are one year things. you have a respectful period of mourning, but life moves on.

    Otherwise, every club legend who dies (and they all will, eventually) you end up with another patch with no real rule or protocol for removing it, and you end up with a NASCAR looking uniform. Nobody, no matter how legendary, overshadows the team on the field.

    Look at old, established teams in any sport. Boston Celtics, Manchester United, New York Yankees. You don't see a "BR" or "LG" patch on the Yankees, do you? Manchester United lost almost its entire team in a plane crash in the 50s, and it was a great team. No, you have to cut it at one year, because in any given year, you have no idea what horrible thing will happen. You honor, memorialize, then move people into a special section -- team hall of fame, ring of honor, what have you. But it has to come off the uniform. You have to move on, no matter what.
    Well reasoned argument. The question really boils down to *just how important is Art Modell to the Ravens*. Is he a "George Halas" figure? Is he a staple of the team's permanent identity, whether flawed or not?




  7. #7
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    Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    Yes.




  8. #8
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    Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    Quote Originally Posted by CharmCityCrab View Post
    No. There's a special place in my heart for Artie giving us football back, and I understand why he left Cleveland, but he was also a flawed figure in some ways. I don't think we need a perpetual thing on our jerseys to commemorate him. We didn't do it for Johnny Unitas. The Orioles haven't done it for more than a season for any of their greats. I think one year is sufficient- that's the standard, and to go beyond that implicitly diminishes the tributes we've done and will do for other people associated with the franchise when they pass away and are honored for a single season. We'll continue to remember him with a banner in the stadium (two actually, since they're replicated on each side) in the Ring of Honor with our retired greats and Earnest Byner (Who really belongs in the Redskins Ring of Honor, if they have one, not our's).

    I also don't like the idea of lobbying for the Hall of Fame plaque with a uniform patch. I love the guy, Baltimore loves the guy, he did a ton for this league with television; there's a case he belongs in the Hall. There's also a case that no one who relocates a franchise from a city that loves it should be in the Hall of Fame also, and I think that's fair as a consideration, though there were a lot of mitigating circumstances in this case (i.e. Cleveland built the Indians a stadium and a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, leaving Modell to bleed money at the mistake by the lake- and it was the only way the biggest mistake the NFL has ever made, moving the Colts was even going to be partially remedied [since expansion was closed to us and other franchises only toyed with us when it came to relocation], not to mention that Cleveland got their name and colors and history back [We're still waiting for our's 30 years later]). Let the voters sort it out. Trying to push the idea with a patch that's worn year after year on our uniforms is more likely to annoy voters than sway them- it's like giving them the finger or something.
    This was a well thought counter argument too.

    I want dialogue.

    Ultimately the right decision will made by the Ravens.




  9. #9
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    Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack View Post
    Well reasoned argument. The question really boils down to *just how important is Art Modell to the Ravens*. Is he a "George Halas" figure? Is he a staple of the team's permanent identity, whether flawed or not?
    There's no question: Art is of the utmost, most profound, fundamental importance to the team.

    So I suppose the question is whether anyone can achieve something so monumental as to deserve either (a) a permanant uniform memorial, or (b) a uniform memorial of indefininte duration to be supplanted when there becomes a backlog of other team legends who are deemed to deserve a "greater than, or equal to" memorial, so you have to stop populating the uniform with memorials.

    And for me at least, that's the problem.

    Just like putting Byner in the ROH (which most agree was ill advised). At some point, do you accumulate so many club legends that you can no longer credibly assign them uniform space, without dishonoring one, or having to drop someone, or drop them all? So for me it's a long term view. And I look at the great franchises, the ones players a hundred years later are honored to play for, and it seems to me those teams all are united in their commitment to keep the jerseys clean and classic. But they make sure to reserve important and honored places for their legends, and do it in a way people respect. They make sure people don't forget the legends but without covering the jerseys with reminders. I would like to see the Ravens become one of those kinds of franchises.

    No knock on the Bears. They are iconic in their own right. But ... if Halas stays on there, how do you honor Walter Payton? Sid Luckman? Gayle Sayers? Mike Singletary? It gets to be a slippery slope, and I would hate any kind of debate like that to detract from the team itself. I just think that after a certain period, you move people into your ROH or HOF, have a statute, monument, display, what have you... and go from there.
    No one likes us, and we don't care.




  10. #10
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    Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    No. Let Art be forever immortalized by that huge portrait in the front lobby of The Castle. No permanent uniform adornment is necessary, or warranted.




  11. #11
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    Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    No, that's like expecting a grieving family to wear black forever. One season was the appropriate amount of time. Ray Lewis will someday receive the same honor, I suspect; and rightly so. As will Steve Bisciotti. Like someone said above, if you don't limit these things to one year, the uniforms will end up looking like NASCAR uniforms.
    "A lot" is a two word expression denoting a great deal or greatly, as in "I like sunshine a lot." "Alot" is a lovable imaginary grammar monster. You can love a lot; you can love an alot; you can love alots a lot; but they are not the same thing.




  12. #12

    Re: Should the "Art" patch stay on the Ravens uniform?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    No. Let Art be forever immortalized by that huge portrait in the front lobby of The Castle. No permanent uniform adornment is necessary, or warranted.
    Yes. The best approach.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




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