Is Dennis Pitta worth 2nd round, or 1st round tender?/Other RFAs

[BcRaven]

IMO Pitta is like that 3 year old car you drive. It's worth more to you than the other guy.
I'd put a 2nd round tender on him... Bc

[GOTA]

IMO Pitta is like that 3 year old car you drive. It's worth more to you than the other guy.
I'd put a 2nd round tender on him... Bc

That's the perfect comparison.

[bmorecareful]

After reading through some of the posts that came through while I was writing my longer one above I think some of you are underrating Pitta's level of play and value to this offense, at least a little bit. I don't think he's an "easily replaceable" player even if his ceiling is not sky-high.

I certainly agree that he's well below "star/feature offensive player" level that the top TEs of the league like Graham, Gronkowski, Davis, etc. are. He's firmly in the 2nd tier in terms of overall talent and production. But that's not a bad place at all to be. PFF has him graded out as the 9th best TE in the league in yards per route run and the 6th best in drop rate. He's an extremely efficient player who fits the offense perfectly, has been durable, and is probably never going to be lower than the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game at all times. If we have to make cuts at WR next year he could easily be the "best" overall receiver on the team.

This might also be projecting a little bit too much but I'm expecting Pitta to really explode in Caldwell's offense. The sample size is very small, but he averaged 45% more yards/game and 75% more TDs/game under Caldwell compared to Cam's offense (stat line comparison below,) and in terms of actual eyeball test he was used MUCH more as a featured target downfield rather than being a dump-off option. Cam liked to send Pitta exclusively on simple, short routes like curls, flats, etc. while Caldwell used him much more dynamically.

3.8 receptions, 38 yards, .4 TDs in 13 games under Cam
3.5 receptions, 55 yards, .7 TDs in 7 games under Caldwell (prorates to 56 catches, 880 yards, 11 TDs over a full season)

[JAB1985]

I think right around a 4.5m a year average is good for Pitta, say about 4 years/18m or 5/22 (best recent contract comparison is the deal Greg Olsen signed with Carolina after he was traded to them before the 2011 season). Pitta is going to be 28 at the start of next season, people forget that he came into the league much older than your average rookie, but locking him up through age 32 or so makes sense when you know you're going to want him around.

honestly I think Olsen is a better all around player than Pitta, so if he got 5/22.8, i doubt Pitta gets the same. Hes basically the same receiving target yet is a much better blocker. I would hope Pitta is less than 4/year considering that and that theyre basically the same age and only 1-2 years apart in contract date.

[B-more Ravor]

I'm not sure what a "ROFR" tender is. Right of first refusal? I don't think it exists.

ROFR refers to RFAs who were undrafted rookie - like Morgan Cox - who, since they were undrafted, don't come with any draft pick compensation, but does still come with the right to match (ie right of first refusal).

[bmorecareful]

honestly I think Olsen is a better all around player than Pitta, so if he got 5/22.8, i doubt Pitta gets the same. Hes basically the same receiving target yet is a much better blocker. I would hope Pitta is less than 4/year considering that and that theyre basically the same age and only 1-2 years apart in contract date.

If this were 2 years ago then 5/22.8 is definitely too rich for Pitta, and I agree that Olsen is a better all-around player, but I'm accounting for inflation/price creep in that number. I hope the Ravens sign Pitta for as low a figure as possible but below 4m/year probably isn't going to get it done, IMO. He's just been too good of a player to want to sign for Joel Dreessen/Jacob Tamme type of money. Those guys are just role-players while Pitta is definitely a feature player in this offense and the undisputed #1 TE.

[jonboy79]

Nice post. I actually think my preferred action with Pitta would be to lock him up long-term right now. Either the 1st or 2nd round tenders are both in the 2m cap hit range for next year, and we could EASILY structure a 4 year extension that puts his 2013 cap number at or below 2m thus providing at worst no bigger cap hit and at best a bit of cap savings.

I think right around a 4.5m a year average is good for Pitta, say about 4 years/18m or 5/22 (best recent contract comparison is the deal Greg Olsen signed with Carolina after he was traded to them before the 2011 season). Pitta is going to be 28 at the start of next season, people forget that he came into the league much older than your average rookie, but locking him up through age 32 or so makes sense when you know you're going to want him around.

I see Pitta having a breakout year next year in Jim Caldwell's offense. We know Flacco loves throwing to him and we could be facing major uncertainty at WR, so he could really emerge into a Dallas Clark level role in the offense. Why not just buy low instead of high by locking him up now?

The other RFAs... I agree with everything you said. Cox, Harewood, and Reed are all going to be non-tendered. Cox will likely get a veteran minimum deal. Harewood is also a guy that it wouldn't hurt to retain if he'll take the vet minimum, we need OL depth next year and he's got some positional versatility. David Reed is gone if Jacoby stays. Art Jones gets a 2nd rounder, he needs to prove himself for another year but is too valuable to risk losing for a 5th.

If I were Ozzie I'd slap the ROFR tender on Ed Dickson and then go looking for a trade partner. I actually think he could have some value to other teams looking for a "slot" type of TE, the problem is that we already have Pitta filling that role to a T and there is no room for another of the same player on our offense. I would definitely give him up for a 5th rounder to Tampa Bay, St. Louis, or any number of other teams in need of receiving TE help.

+1..2nd rd tender for Jones and Pitta
Round of Draft for Dickson, and get on the phones with Philly and other, Possibly trade for 4th/5th or a swap of 2nds or 3rds witha team picking ahead of us.
Non Tender Cox, harewood and Reed. Offer Harewood and Cox Vet Min deals, perhaps even multiple years with 5 figure bonuses. No Matt Katula situations again where we lock a LSer up for multiple years at over $1m per year.. that was lunacy. We do need OL depth, and Harewoods versatility and knowledge of our system is worth something, though no tmuch.

[JAB1985]

If this were 2 years ago then 5/22.8 is definitely too rich for Pitta, and I agree that Olsen is a better all-around player, but I'm accounting for inflation/price creep in that number. I hope the Ravens sign Pitta for as low a figure as possible but below 4m/year probably isn't going to get it done, IMO. He's just been too good of a player to want to sign for Joel Dreessen/Jacob Tamme type of money. Those guys are just role-players while Pitta is definitely a feature player in this offense and the undisputed #1 TE.

I know theres inflation involved, but that just seems a little too much to go from Olsen who excels in just about every facet to just a receiving TE, albeit a good one. Anyway you cut it, we need a similar player in this offense.

[Carey]

Nice post. I actually think my preferred action with Pitta would be to lock him up long-term right now. Either the 1st or 2nd round tenders are both in the 2m cap hit range for next year, and we could EASILY structure a 4 year extension that puts his 2013 cap number at or below 2m thus providing at worst no bigger cap hit and at best a bit of cap savings.

I think right around a 4.5m a year average is good for Pitta, say about 4 years/18m or 5/22 (best recent contract comparison is the deal Greg Olsen signed with Carolina after he was traded to them before the 2011 season). Pitta is going to be 28 at the start of next season, people forget that he came into the league much older than your average rookie, but locking him up through age 32 or so makes sense when you know you're going to want him around.

I see Pitta having a breakout year next year in Jim Caldwell's offense. We know Flacco loves throwing to him and we could be facing major uncertainty at WR, so he could really emerge into a Dallas Clark level role in the offense. Why not just buy low instead of high by locking him up now?

The other RFAs... I agree with everything you said. Cox, Harewood, and Reed are all going to be non-tendered. Cox will likely get a veteran minimum deal. Harewood is also a guy that it wouldn't hurt to retain if he'll take the vet minimum, we need OL depth next year and he's got some positional versatility. David Reed is gone if Jacoby stays. Art Jones gets a 2nd rounder, he needs to prove himself for another year but is too valuable to risk losing for a 5th.

If I were Ozzie I'd slap the ROFR tender on Ed Dickson and then go looking for a trade partner. I actually think he could have some value to other teams looking for a "slot" type of TE, the problem is that we already have Pitta filling that role to a T and there is no room for another of the same player on our offense. I would definitely give him up for a 5th rounder to Tampa Bay, St. Louis, or any number of other teams in need of receiving TE help.

Agree completely with this post completely except for Dickson, i'd tender him at the original draft pick level and keep him. I think he's still a capable guy, knows the offense, and gives us personnel versatility. If you look at how much the Colts used two TE's and how many #2 TE's they made productive guys i think Dickson has that chance. I think it's worth keeping him around at least another year.

[wickedsolo]

No other team was willing to sign Yanda at the 2nd round tender. I don't see anyone going after Pitta. He's a nice player but he's not a special TE. If a team was looking for a TE they have options that are unrestricted like Dustin Keller, Anthony Fasano and most likely Jermichael Finley. I see Ozzie sticking with the 2nd for Pitta.

:word

I can't see Pitta not getting a 2nd.

Dickson will probably get a 3rd, since that is where he was drafted.

[B-more Ravor]

Historically, they've pretty much always tendered all of their RFAs.

So, if that's the case, they'd likely IMO do this:

Pitta - 2nd rounder tender
Jones - 2nd round tender
Dickson - low tender (3rd round comp)
Reed - low (5th)
Harewood - low (6th)
Cox - low (ROFR)

Now, with a tight cap and all - especially if they have to tag Flacco - I could seen them non-tendering Reed and Harewood. They've done this in the past and then re-signed the guys to minimum deals ($630K). So, if those guys were inclined, I think that would be a decent solution, but it remains to be seen whether they would accept the reduction or would rather try their luck elsewhere.

I know $1.3M is a lot for a LS, but with Cox, I'm of the opinion that when you've got a good one, that's not a bad deal. They could always try the non-tender/re-sign to minimum deal here as well, but I'd actually think Cox would have more leverage than Reed or Harewood.

They could also do like they did with his predeceasor (Matt Katula) and give him say a 5-year deal with basically minimum salaries and a $600K bonus. That would mean he'd make close to the RFA tender amount, but would make his 2013 cap number $750K, so there'd still be a decent savings from the $1.3M RFA tender. Also, understanding that his replacement, even if a rookie (and untested), would be making at least $405K.

[BcRaven]

If I had to "roll the dice" between Pitta and Dickson, I'd choose Pitta. Dickson (3rd round choice) had the higher upside, and is younger. Pitta (4th round choice) seemed the more conventional TE. That was 2010, and while the Ravens gave Dickson every chance to win the starting job, Pitta has become one of Joe's go-to guys... Bc