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  1. #91
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide



    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    The Steelers do this every year. Eventually they are going to get near the end of Ben's contract and end up with a crazy guaranteed number on a declining player. They must feel that they can win now and are willing to sacrifice the future to make it happen.
    'win now' is indicated by their QB situation. they keep Leftwich (old) and Batch (older) and let Dixon go. wonder what they'll say if DD lights it up in Philly.
    they have no QB Of The Future so they'd better keep BBen upright...which hasn't happened here lately.
    Baltimore Ravens, 2012 NFL Champions!




  2. #92
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    It's been happening before our eyes for two years now and people are still skeptical. They are not the big bad Steelers anymore. They've been doing these restructures, in favor of players who can't stay healthy. I keep reading people declare "When they are healthy" or "When healthy".

    They aren't going to be healthy anymore. It's only going to get worse. They are trying to hold off the inevitable. Two years ago, we declared that the Steelers weren't dead and the Ravens took the division from them by force. Last year, we declared that the Steelers weren't dead and they went 8-8.

    It's not going to get any better.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  3. #93

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if this has already been said, but I think there is a bit of a misconception of how the Steelers structure their contracts and how it compares to how the Ravens do contracts.

    The Ravens have always favored sizeable bonus money, with smaller base salaries that get prorated over the life of the deal (up to 5 years). This is money that cannot be restructured in any way because once it's paid, it's prorated.

    The Steelers OTOH give out smaller bonuses - therefore less initial prorations - and much larger base salaries.

    So, right now, the Ravens only really have 3 guys they could restructure (Suggs, Ngata, Yanda) and get any sort of cap relief because of all the relatively low base salaries. Basically, the Ravens have a greater percentage of their Cap tied up in bonus proration, and less in base salaries.

    OTOH, the Steelers have more of their Cap tied up in base salaries and less in bonus prorations (although, obviously, the restructures over the last 2 years has changed that).

    The point is that the Steelers actually had/have greater Cap flexibility than the Ravens have/had. The Steelers, by doing all of those restructures, have basically turned base salary into bonuses to be prorated. They NOW have a Cap that looks more like the Ravens because of the greater amount of prorations. They would be wise to stop doing so, but it's the higher base salaries that has recently put them over the Cap, but also gave them an easy fix, for the most part. Now, their prorations/base salary ratio is looking more like the Ravens, but that was after they used the flexibility they had to convert base salary to bonus and reduce this Cap.

    In other words, IMO, much of the talk of their Cap woes was great exaggerated. They certainly aren't in great shape, but they are nowhere near in as bad of shape as people want to think or all of the restructures might indicate. Yes, those restructures created more bonus prorations in future years, but they had less of them to start with, so it's not as damaging as it would appear at first blush.
    Last edited by B-more Ravor; 03-04-2013 at 02:05 AM.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  4. #94
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if this has already been said, but I think there is a bit of a misconception of how the Steelers structure their contracts and how it compares to how the Ravens do contracts.

    The Ravens have always favored sizeable bonus money, with smaller base salaries that get prorated over the life of the deal (up to 5 years). This is money that cannot be restructured in any way because once it's paid, it's prorated.

    The Steelers OTOH give out smaller bonuses - therefore less initial prorations - and much larger base salaries.

    So, right now, the Ravens only really have 3 guys they could restructure (Suggs, Ngata, Yanda) and get any sort of cap relief because of all the relatively low base salaries. Basically, the Ravens have a greater percentage of their Cap tied up in bonus proration, and less in base salaries.

    OTOH, the Steelers have more of their Cap tied up in base salaries and less in bonus prorations (although, obviously, the restructures over the last 2 years has changed that).

    The point is that the Steelers actually had/have greater Cap flexibility than the Ravens have/had. The Steelers, by doing all of those restructures, have basically turned base salary into bonuses to be prorated. They NOW have a Cap that looks more like the Ravens because of the greater amount of prorations. They would be wise to stop doing so, but it's the higher base salaries that has recently put them over the Cap, but also gave them an easy fix, for the most part. Now, their prorations/base salary ratio is looking more like the Ravens, but that was after they used the flexibility they had to convert base salary to bonus and reduce this Cap.

    In other words, IMO, much of the talk of their Cap woes was great exaggerated. They certainly aren't in great shape, but they are nowhere near in as bad of shape as people want to think or all of the restructures might indicate. Yes, those restructures created more bonus prorations in future years, but they had less of them to start with, so it's not as damaging as it would appear at first blush.
    I've noticed this as well, but I think you might not have read enough to get the original point. I don't think whether the Steelers put their money in bonuses or base salary is really all that relevant to their current predicament. Had this team restructured those base salaries in order to bring in younger free agents (a la Corey Graham or Jacoby Jones), having less money tied up in bonuses would be an asset. But they haven't. I really can't think of a significant free agent that they've added in the last five years. Instead, they've opted to keep pouring money into the same core of 10 players or so regardless of whether it makes sense or not to do so.

    Troy Polamalu is worth nowhere near his $11 million. I wouldn't pay Colon half of the $8 million he's scheduled to make. James Harrison was given a $51m contract when he was 31 years old. That contract has a cap # of over $10 million for his age 35 season and $9m for his age 36 season. That contract also had $4.8 million in dead money after the age of 35. Ike Taylor was given a contract as he entered his age 31 season that scheduled him for $9.4 million as a 33 year old and $10.4 as a 34 year old. His contract also contained $6.8 million in dead money over those 33/34 aged seasons.


    The Steelers took a philosophical angle to keep their same guys and ride them to the bitter end at the expense of freshening up their roster with younger talent from other teams. This is the stage where that philosophy is going to catch up to them.

    Also, if anything, the fact that the Steelers have less money tied up in bonuses and more money in base salaries, makes this decision making process all the more indefensible. It wasn't as if these bonus-related dead money amounts backed them into a corner where they had no option but to keep these players. They could have easily cut ties with them at a great savings, but decided not to.




  5. #95
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    The Steelers don't sign anyone, all they do is draft and keep really old players, and then those drafted players get buried on the roster and have a hard time developing. I think thats one of the reasons why there's been a lot of poor drafts recently with the Steelers, the younger players for the most part haven't been given a chance. So essentially a large % of the Steelers starting team has been the same team since their last SB win, apart from a few guys like Hines Ward, etc.... That is all well and good if you have a team as young as the Houston Texans or the 49ers, but they are just really old now, and they need to make some roster changes IMO. You can't just purely build your team through the draft either.

    Its not like you have to overspend for big names either. We signed guys that some people had never heard about, like Corey Grahame and Bernard Pollard, and those players were key cogs and helped us win the SB in the end. Boldin was a trade, and Jacoby was an under the radar signing.




  6. #96
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if this has already been said, but I think there is a bit of a misconception of how the Steelers structure their contracts and how it compares to how the Ravens do contracts.

    The Ravens have always favored sizeable bonus money, with smaller base salaries that get prorated over the life of the deal (up to 5 years). This is money that cannot be restructured in any way because once it's paid, it's prorated.

    The Steelers OTOH give out smaller bonuses - therefore less initial prorations - and much larger base salaries.

    So, right now, the Ravens only really have 3 guys they could restructure (Suggs, Ngata, Yanda) and get any sort of cap relief because of all the relatively low base salaries. Basically, the Ravens have a greater percentage of their Cap tied up in bonus proration, and less in base salaries.

    OTOH, the Steelers have more of their Cap tied up in base salaries and less in bonus prorations (although, obviously, the restructures over the last 2 years has changed that).

    The point is that the Steelers actually had/have greater Cap flexibility than the Ravens have/had. The Steelers, by doing all of those restructures, have basically turned base salary into bonuses to be prorated. They NOW have a Cap that looks more like the Ravens because of the greater amount of prorations. They would be wise to stop doing so, but it's the higher base salaries that has recently put them over the Cap, but also gave them an easy fix, for the most part. Now, their prorations/base salary ratio is looking more like the Ravens, but that was after they used the flexibility they had to convert base salary to bonus and reduce this Cap.

    In other words, IMO, much of the talk of their Cap woes was great exaggerated. They certainly aren't in great shape, but they are nowhere near in as bad of shape as people want to think or all of the restructures might indicate. Yes, those restructures created more bonus prorations in future years, but they had less of them to start with, so it's not as damaging as it would appear at first blush.
    There you go, spoiling my fun. I hope you're happy with yourself.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




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