Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 25 to 36 of 96
  1. #25

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Let's get back to Timmons and Brown. I give the Steelers credit that these are the two players most worthy of restructures. They are both turning 27 this year and will be around for a while.

    With Antonio Brown, the Steelers took $3.85 million of his 2013 salary and converted it into a bonus prorated over the next 5 years. It is applied in increments of $770k from 2013-2017. This dropped his 2013 cap # from around $6.2 million down to $3.1 million. From 2013-2016, Brown's signing bonus dead money increased from $1.7 million to $2.47. In 2017, when Brown's last year of contract had no dead money, it now has $770k. I'm not totally in favor of restructures in most cases, but this is probably one of the more sensible ones I've seen, particularly by Steeler standards. Since Brown has 5 years remaining on his deal, you can move a decent amount of money without having the cap impact be that damaging.

    However, on a down side, Brown does now have $10.5 million in dead money heading forward, versus $7.5 before the restructure. His salary in 2015, when he's 29, is $8.5 million and in 2016, when he's 30, is $10.7. It's hard to say what future caps will look like, but those are high figures for a guy like Brown, who is a solid, productive WR, but not elite.

    Timmons is the same age as Brown, even though he was drafted in 2007 and Brown was drafted in 2010.

    His restructure was $4.5 million over 4 years with a roster bonus of $2.5 million. This dropped his 2013 cap # from $10.4 to $5.9 million. However, now the prorated portion of those two bonuses ($1.75 million per year) will be tacked on to his cap # for 2014,2015, and 2016. His cap cost those three years will be $11.8, $12.5, and $11.8. Timmons is probably the best player on the Steelers in my opinion, so this isn't an insane restructure, but it is pushing the limits of sanity a bit. He will have about $5 million of dead money in 2014 and 2015 and $3 million in 2016 (last year of his current contract). If Timmons keeps pace at his current high level of play, it's no big deal, but if his play drops a bit, the Steelers will be in a tough spot to cut him due to the $13 million in dead money.

    What I'm hearing on the Post Gazette's site is that Big Ben might convert as much as $9 million of his 2013 salary into a bonus to be spread in increments of $3 million/year over the remaining three years on his deal. This would drop his 2013 salary cap # from $19.6 to $13.6. But it would also take his 2014 cap # from $14.9 to $17.9 and his 2015 (when he's 33)from $14.4 to $17.4. Given his inability to stay on the field recently, that's a very unsound, risky gamble in my opinion.

    If you look at it this way....assuming the Steelers do restructure Ben as above, they now created an extra $5.3 million in dead money for 2014 and 2015 just between the restructures to Brown, Timmons, and Roethlisberger. This doesn't even count the $9.5 million/year that is already "dead money" through those 3 contracts for 2014 and 2015. This is $5.3 on top of that amount. So what does $5.3 million get you that the Steelers will now no longer have in 2014 and 2015? Well, using last year as an example, that $5.3 million would have gotten you both Jacoby Jones and Corey Graham during this past offseason. That's a huge amount of money to make "dead" just through the process of getting yourself out of cap trouble. .They also created an extra $2.2 million in dead money for 2016 with Brown and Timmons.


    If the Steelers can somehow resurrect these 30-somethings into past glory for one more 10-6 season in 2013 (very optimistic), it's going to come at a huge cost to their chances for success in 2014 and 2015. In order for these restructures to make the slightest sense, you have to believe that there is a Super Bowl contending roster still in that 2013 clubhouse. I think that's a longshot to begin with, particularly when you consider that their 2011 and 2012 teams weren't particularly close to even reaching a Super Bowl. Those teams had Wallace, Hampton, Foote, Foster, and Mundy, all who are likely to be lost in free agency. What logic is there to think that these aging players will suddenly turn into their 2010 versions? Even if some of them did, where are the complimentary players needed to sustain a roster during a 16 game season? They are on other rosters now, because the Steeler FO has butchered their salary cap for years now.

    Long years ahead in Pittsburgh. Serves them right.
    Last edited by LukeDaniel; 02-28-2013 at 12:04 PM.





  2. #26

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    They definitely missed on Ta'amu and Rainey, and Adams and DeCastro were up and down in their rookie years, but you give a draft class 3 years to pan out. The two OL are both talented and showed flashes in their rookie years. It's a steep learning curve for most linemen in the NFL, so there's no reason to think they won't improve next year.

    I'm not saying the Steelers are going to be Super Bowl contenders next year, but they have talent on the roster, a good coaching staff, and a good FO. They are just NOT going to be a 4-12 team next year, keep dreaming if you think that's the case. They're going to be right there with the Ravens even if they can't keep up all year long.
    Nobody here believes (or even implied imo) that they're going to be the Cleveland Browns, but they don't seem to be trending in the right direction.





  3. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    21,926
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Note carefully what I said--young and talented OL, not necessarily productive at this point in their careers. The Steelers' OL is projected next year to look like this:

    LT-Gilbert LG-Beachum C-Pouncey RG-DeCastro RT-Adams

    Every starter on that line is 24 or younger and all but 1 is a first or second round pick. That's definitely young and talented, and the Steelers were never able to field that line last year because their OL was ravaged by injuries. The injury situation will regress to the mean next year and be better by default, so I strongly expect their OL to be MUCH improved.

    As for the young talent on their roster to build around... not much else I can say apart from what I already said. Antonio Brown is a very good receiver, Woodley is one of the league's best pass rushers when healthy, and Timmons is perhaps the best young ILB in the AFC. I've already highlighted how young their OL is, and they have numerous defensive draft picks (Cameron Heyward, Steve McLendon, Curtis Brown, Cortez Allen) who have played well in limited duty.

    I just don't think the Steelers are in the kind of trouble teams like Jacksonville, Oakland, etc. are. Those are teams without a franchise QB and with virtually no talent on the roster. The Steelers are way above that territory.
    I'll just say this. I don't think they've drafted well at all in the past couple of years. On D other than Timmons who I do think is pretty good, Woodley and Kenaan Allen. They are old on D and not that talent in with the younger guys (Heyward Hood, Worlds).

    Same with the offense. Starks the only guy they've had over the years able to stop Suggs will likely be gone, Same with Colon. Pouncey is vastly overrated and not very durable. The RT from Florida (I think) is a revolving door. Adams is a OG IMO and while they do have some WR the O-line is getting their franchise QB beat to shit and no time to throw.

    BUT, even with the bad drafts, lack of talent and putting themselves in cap hell, I still hate playing them.





  4. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Y'all
    Posts
    34,414
    Every year, this is the story and every year, they find a way to make it work.

    The locker room tension / back stabbing is far more of a destructive issue for them than the cap.





  5. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    UK 🇬🇧
    Posts
    16,733
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Every year, this is the story and every year, they find a way to make it work.

    The locker room tension / back stabbing is far more of a destructive issue for them than the cap.
    make it work... and go 8-8





  6. #30

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    The Steelers HAVE a "young core" in place to build around. Restructuring some of those contracts definitely pushes off the pain until future years, but they are betting on the cap increasing in future years as much as the Ravens did when they signed the Ngata, Webb, and Rice deals, all of which double or even triple in cap hits beginning in 2014. The anticipated Flacco contract will be much the same--huge cap hits in future years. Go look up the cap numbers for the restructured Woodley and Brown contracts. Those contracts were done very carefully with small bonus numbers in future years SPECIFICALLY to open up the possibility of restructures without causing too much harm. Woodley's cap hits in future years are right around the 13m mark. What's Suggs' cap number over the next 2 years? Right around 13m. No difference between the Steelers and Ravens there.

    The reality of the matter is simple: the Steelers have a franchise QB under contract for several years, with an extremely young, talented, and cheap OL to protect him. They have Antonio Brown and numerous young pieces on defense (Woodley, Timmons, Heyward all under 30)
    Okay, so after Brown, Woodley, Timmons, Heyward, who else?

    Decastro, Pouncey, Emmanuel Sanders, Redman, Dwyer, Cortez Allen are the only ones who come to mind under the age of 30 who are any good. That's not a core, that's about 40% of a core.

    Look at the Ravens core under 30. Flacco (28), Pierce (23), Rice (26), Torrey (24), Yanda (29), Oher (27), Osemele (24), Jacoby (29, not sure his long term probabilities, but he's still under contract) Pitta (28), Ngata (29), McPhee (24), Webb (27), Graham (28), Pollard (28), Jimmy Smith (25), Art Jones (27), Upshaw (23), McClellan (27). I'm not even counting guys like Gradkowski, Doss, Bynes, Tyson, Jah Reid, and Chykie Brown, who might step up into prominent roles in the near future or guys still in their 20s, who aren't that great (Jameel, Dickson, Cody).

    The Steelers and Ravens really aren't comparable in terms of young talent right now. Also, keep in mind that the list above didn't make mention of Kruger or Ellerbe, one of whom is likely to be back. The Steelers are faced with losing almost every significant Free Agent because the guys currently under contract are too expensive.





  7. #31

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    DeCastro were up and down in their rookie years,
    When was Decastro up? He really only played the first three weeks of the season before tearing up his knee.





  8. #32

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    they had all that last year and were 8-8... and now losing more key pieces. I dont think theyll go 8-8 but im not seeing reason to believe theyll be exceptionally better than that either. Frankly a lot of us felt they would struggle this year, they did, I see the same thing this year. Are they capable of being a contender? sure, but i wouldnt say theyre guaranteed that like years past.
    In my humble opinion, I think there is a far greater chance they go 4-12 than 12-4, particularly given the ascension of Cincy and Cleveland.





  9. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    11,089
    Blog Entries
    7

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    In my humble opinion, I think there is a far greater chance they go 4-12 than 12-4, particularly given the ascension of Cincy and Cleveland.
    Cincy fans don't want to hear it, but their owner loves $$ more than winning.

    He is perfectly happy pocketing the league TV revenue (which I think is $100M+/team) ON TOP OF the profits from tickets, concessions, etc, and not using any of that $$ to improve the team.

    They are like $45M under the cap. At the end of free agency they will probably be $35M under the cap. They will re-sign their own FAs like Johnson and do nothing else.

    They could easily get Mike Wallace. Wallace and Green would be sick. But they probably won't. They could easily rise to the top of the division I think, if their owner spent $$. But he doesn't.





  10. #34

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post
    Cincy fans don't want to hear it, but their owner loves $$ more than winning.

    He is perfectly happy pocketing the league TV revenue (which I think is $100M+/team) ON TOP OF the profits from tickets, concessions, etc, and not using any of that $$ to improve the team.

    They are like $45M under the cap. At the end of free agency they will probably be $35M under the cap. They will re-sign their own FAs like Johnson and do nothing else.

    They could easily get Mike Wallace. Wallace and Green would be sick. But they probably won't. They could easily rise to the top of the division I think, if their owner spent $$. But he doesn't.
    They have so much friggin talent from the past two home run drafts that they might be good by default despite having the worst owner in pro sports.





  11. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Y'all
    Posts
    34,414
    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    make it work... and go 8-8
    Their record last year had nothing to do with the cap.





  12. #36

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Again, let me emphasize that with restructuring Roethlisberger, Timmons, and Brown- which creates an extra $5.3 million "dead money" for the 2014 and 2015 season- the Steelers are still a projected $7.5 million over the cap. This simple statement alone should tell you how badly they've screwed themselves with their salary cap management.

    If they cut/restructure a 35 year old Harrison, it gets even worse. He has $4.9 in dead money still on his contract. Cutting him saves $6.6 million in base salary for 2013, but still leaves you with all that dead money. He has formally come out and said that he is not willing to accept a pay cut, but would accept a restructure. This screws them even further for both this year and next year.





Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Link To Mobile Site
var infolinks_pid = 3297965; var infolinks_wsid = 0; //—->