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  1. #46
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide



    I cannot believe that the Steelers will come unglued or have all of the wheels fall off the cart simply because the organization has not given any basis to believe it in recent history. Ben looked like a world-beater earlier in the season. They have had low spots in the draft and seem to be able to pull talent together - as any good organization has to do. They play the type of football and handle the FO issues that make a team one that hangs around. There is not one sure-fire way to be competitive in the NFL, so regardless of the numbers I just cannot see them being a bottom-feeder.

    If they fall apart, I see it more related to injuries. Part of that may be the issue of depth, but you cannot really say that a young player is good until he has to step up and fill the spot. A Special-Teamer is not as good as the starter, just as the Practice Player is not as good as the Special Teamer that has now moved up. You hope your team finds a "diamond-in-the-rough", but unless it is a high pick that is supposed to be a starter (and can stay healthy) it is too much to expect you can stock the roster with strength everywhere. A good organization can find a way to make the Cap work with competitive players. The coaching also has to adjust the game plans based on that shift in talent or it is doomed.

    Everybody starts at 0-0. I expect that the Steelers will be in the fight. I would like to think otherwise, but I do not see the evidence to support it.
    Captain Offense




  2. #47

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Okay, so after Brown, Woodley, Timmons, Heyward, who else?

    Decastro, Pouncey, Emmanuel Sanders, Redman, Dwyer, Cortez Allen are the only ones who come to mind under the age of 30 who are any good. That's not a core, that's about 40% of a core.

    Look at the Ravens core under 30. Flacco (28), Pierce (23), Rice (26), Torrey (24), Yanda (29), Oher (27), Osemele (24), Jacoby (29, not sure his long term probabilities, but he's still under contract) Pitta (28), Ngata (29), McPhee (24), Webb (27), Graham (28), Pollard (28), Jimmy Smith (25), Art Jones (27), Upshaw (23), McClellan (27). I'm not even counting guys like Gradkowski, Doss, Bynes, Tyson, Jah Reid, and Chykie Brown, who might step up into prominent roles in the near future or guys still in their 20s, who aren't that great (Jameel, Dickson, Cody).

    The Steelers and Ravens really aren't comparable in terms of young talent right now. Also, keep in mind that the list above didn't make mention of Kruger or Ellerbe, one of whom is likely to be back. The Steelers are faced with losing almost every significant Free Agent because the guys currently under contract are too expensive.
    There's no disputing that the Ravens have a far better young core of players than the Steelers. I might quibble a bit with your placement of a few guys on that list--Oher, Pitta, Jacoby, Graham, and Art Jones are only under contract 1 more year, Ngata is way closer to the end of his career than its prime, etc--but there's no disputing that our core looks better than their's.

    The Ravens are a better team on paper and I would give them the edge over the next few years, but the problem I have is the hand-waving and glib pronouncement that they're no longer contenders. At this point, the Steelers are definitely still playoff contenders.

    The AFC right now has Baltimore, New England, Denver, and Houston as division front-runners. Then you probably have about 4 teams fighting for the wildcard spots... and I can't see the Steelers not being one of them along with Indy and Cincy. If the AFC were stronger top-to-bottom like the NFC is they might not be, and there could definitely be surprise teams next year like KC, Cleveland, or Miami, but as I project it now the Steelers are in the mix for the playoffs at a minimum. People are underrating how much better they'll be next year simply because their injury situation (like our's) was SO much worse than average this year, that just regressing to the mean will be a major improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    When was Decastro up? He really only played the first three weeks of the season before tearing up his knee.
    Actually he played 4 games with 3 starts, all in December, after recovering from the knee injury. I'm relying on the words of others when I say "up and down," I haven't watched myself, but apparently he was starting to come on as a run blocker despite continuing to not play well in pass protection (3 sacks in 3 starts.) 2012 was definitely a lost season for him, and he could be on his way to a very mediocre career, for all we know. I just REALLY have a hard time seeing it considering how good he was in college... I, like many others, basically had him graded as a can't-miss coming out of Stanford. Of course, in the draft plenty of can't-miss guys end up well wide of the mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    In my humble opinion, I think there is a far greater chance they go 4-12 than 12-4, particularly given the ascension of Cincy and Cleveland.
    12-4 definitely looks lofty. 4-12 looks pretty much equally unlikely, though. Here's their 2013-2014 non-divisional opponents:

    Home - Buffalo, Miami, Chicago, Detroit, Tennessee
    Away - New England, New York Jets, Green Bay, Oakland, Minnesota

    At worst, say the Steelers are swept by Baltimore and split with Cincy and Cleveland. I don't see them losing to Buffalo, Detroit, or Tennessee at home, and let's say they split with Miami and Chicago. They'll beat the Jets and Raiders on the road in all likelihood but lose to New England, Green Bay, and Minnesota.

    That's 8-8, and I've been conservative--they could easily snatch one here and one there to get to 10 wins. Sure, they could drop a few they're supposed to win and go 6-10, but is that really a LOT more likely than 10-6? I really don't think so. I said it before and I'll say it again, they're going to be right around the 9-7 range or so, and that's enough to be in the playoff hunt.




  3. #48
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    Well, one could argue that finishing 8-8 isn't exactly "finding a way to make it work"

    Also, the "year-in-year-out, we hear this same story" angle isn't accurate either - the Steelers have NEVER let themselves get into this kind of cap-jail previously. PGH had historically been ruthlessly efficient in identifying key core players, and letting the rest of their somewhere around 30-ish, expensive FAs walk (see Kirkland, Burress, Faneca, Porter, Foote, etc).

    Starting somewhere around 08-09, they switched gears, trying to resign most of these type of guys on the roster. Smith, Hampton, Farrior, Keisel, Harrison and Clark - all on the wrong side of 30, and all re-signed in recent years to expensive, long-term contracts. In previous years, they would have identified one or two of those guys (Harrison, Clark) to resign and pair with their young talent, while trusting in their ability to replace those departing FAs thru good drafting, and still maintaining cap integrity.

    Could they still find a way to extricate themselves, while still remaining somewhat competitive? Time will tell. But I think the odds are against them. And I think it's very much a mistake to characterize this as some version of "business-as-usual" for the Steelers - for them, this is a new dynamic we're dealing with.
    Bingo. I was going to bring this up as well. The Steelers of 1995-2006 or 07 were a franchise that accepted that they couldn't keep everyone. In fact, they were vultured more than anyone else in the league. They kept some. They lost quite a few as well. They largely stayed at or near the top of the AFC for quite a while, despite very mediocre quarterback play. Had the late 90s/early 2000s Steelers had a Roethlisberger, they'd have at least one more Lombardi in their trophy case prior to their 2005 win. I firmly believe that. Somewhere along the line, they shifted philosophies into a far more irrational cap approach. Look at Willie Colon's contract for a second and tell me if a franchise like the Pats or the Ravens would ever do that.




  4. #49
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Offense View Post
    Everybody starts at 0-0. I expect that the Steelers will be in the fight. I would like to think otherwise, but I do not see the evidence to support it.
    The evidence is their #1 WR will be gone, their TE blew out his knee, their top defensive players are a year older and their RBs suck.

    Could they rise above all of that? Sure. But there is a decent amount of evidence to foresee a tough season ahead, especially with increased competition within the conference.




  5. #50

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    on paper cincy is the team to beat. they seem to have a georgia connection like we have an alabama connection. they have a very young and talented team. we need them to give pissburg problems like cincy gives us problems. hopefully they broke the ice going forwrd wiht their win in pissburg last year in a meaningful game.




  6. #51
    iggyman555 Guest

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-in-cap-space/

    As expected, the Steelers have restructured quarterback Ben Roethlisberger’s contract. As not expected, they’ve done the deal at a time when doing so will help the Ravens reduce the exclusive franchise tender to their own franchise quarterback, Joe Flacco.

    According to Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Roethlisberger has restructured his contract to create $3 million in cap space.

    As recently explained, the Steelers could have cleared up to $7.1 million. But that would have pushed his future cap numbers even higher.

    The move drops Ben’s 2013 cap number from $19.6 million to $16.6 million. And that takes him out of the top five quarterback cap numbers for 2013.

    Ben is replaced by Philip Rivers and his $17.1 million cap number. Which drops the exclusive franchise tender to $19.134 million, saving $500,000 for the Ravens, if they choose to use the exclusive tag on Flacco.

    This week, the Ravens have seen the exclusive franchise number fall more than $1.3 million, via the new Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger contracts. If both teams had waited until March 5 to do the deals, the Ravens would have been forced to tender Flacco at $20.464 million.

    It could be that both teams believe that the Ravens will opt to go non-exclusive, which is expected to result in a cap number of $14.6 million. Regardless, the gap between the two numbers is now more than $1.3 million smaller.




  7. #52

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    i'm not advocating anyone dying here but after Jimmy Johnson passed away from cancer as the Eagles DC the teams defense went south quickly with basically the same talent. sooner or later dick lebeau is going to get a life and retire. he's 75. lebeau has been the squealers competitve advantage for a while.




  8. #53
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Section 502 Raven View Post
    . lebeau has been the squealers competitve advantage for a while.
    Couldn't agree more.




  9. #54
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Lebeau does look in great shape/condition for a man approaching 80.




  10. #55
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Same ol same ol. Steelers system works for them, just a different philosophy than the Ravens. They will be competitive as always I'm sure.




  11. #56
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    They find a way to beat us - even with Charlie Batch. Never count Pissburgh out when it comes to us. They hate us and always bring their A game no matter who is playing.




  12. #57

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Althought I look forward to their inevitable decline I will not count out the steelers until I see them struggling to compete on the field. It boggles the mind how much restructuring they've done in the last few years. Sooner or later they are going to fall apart at the seams but for this upcoming season I'm not sure that's going to happen.
    Other than needing to get under the cap, this rush to free up cap space is probably driven by their desire to sign Steve Breaston and resign Keenan Lewis




  13. #58
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    They are in cap trouble for sure, Lebeau always gives them the edge because the D can out play the mid-level teams and pull out the wins.
    The issue is the depth. Don't like to look at the past, but it is hard to ignore the injuries to Ben, Troy and usually another starter throughout the past few years. When was the last time Ben played a full season or without injuries, same goes for Troy. They have a lot of money wrapped up in guys that have been battling injuries.

    We had some bad injuries last year, but our FO played the cards right and were able to find some key FA's and we had good depth that made the difference.
    I for one will not count them out, because it always seems like they catch some favorable breaks during the season.




  14. #59
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    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    They find a way to beat us - even with Charlie Batch. Never count Pissburgh out when it comes to us. They hate us and always bring their A game no matter who is playing.
    But that was with a team that had just restructured half of their salaries and pushed them forward. Of coarse their team was supposed to be strong that year. The question is how will it be when all of those players are too old to play, and they're owed what they should have payed them years ago.




  15. #60

    Re: Steeler restructures---committing cap suicide

    While we cannot count them out for 2013, they are not trending up. I believe they will still have a tough time cap-wise for 2014 as well, so they really need to hit big in the draft and internal improvements and with preventing injuries and speedy recovery from injuries. They are also losing their #1 WR, which is a big loss for their 2013 team, not to mention Heath Miller will likely miss a lot of time in 2013 while he recovers from torn ACL and MCL late last season. They can be playoff contenders but it seems 10-6 seems to be about their upper limit. The 2014 prospects may not look better. The division is getting much better as Cincy is young and already a playoff team for 2 years in a row now. Cleveland was looking better towards the second half of the season and has some young talent too. While we can't count the Steelers out, their future is not looking bright going forward compared to the rest of the division.




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