2013 NFL Scouting Combine Thread

[GOTA]

I still don't see what Mathieu's NFL position is. Yeah, he's a "football player" and all that. But he's going to have to do things besides serve as "designated roving gambler" out there. They say he'll be a good tackler at the next level. I'd have to see it to believe it. 4 reps tells me he better be Exhibit A at the Form Tackling Clinic if he has any plans of regularly stopping ballcarriers in the NFL. As Ray Lewis once said while he was miked up "You're playin' with grown men now!"

So right now some think he's a FS, some say nickel CB. I am not sure he's purely either one of those, and I'm not sure he's a good fit anywhere in particular.

I've said this before, but a film breakdown I saw on him once showed that nearly all his turnovers that he caused came on gambles where he only could take the risk because 2-3 other LSU defenders were in position to clean up behind him if he missed the INT/ PD or failed to strip the ball. He won't have the luxury of that safety net in the NFL, and will more often be asked to just stay tight and bring down the receiver.

So for him it's all about scheme fit. People don't like to hear that when they're enamored about a guy's playmaking skills (e.g. - Tavon Austin) but it's true. As with Austin, a guy like Mathieu is at best a potentially productive but complementary role player who can make plays for you IF the structure around him is set up to allow it. He will not be the driving force or linchpin of any defense. More like a fun guy to have on a Madden game, and I think that's honestly what affects a lot of opinions on certain guys. Madden and fantasy football have began to cloud perceptions about what real football players can achieve in real games.

Those were the same issues that Ladarius Webb faced. Webb played everywhere in college including on offense. They're both around the same size. Mathieu isn't going to be a 1st round pick so I don't think there will be pressure by the team that drafts him to push him into a particular spot. They'll use him in their nickel and dime packages and see what he can do. I see him ultimately as a FS but it would not surprise me if that doesn't happen until year 3.

[Justlovemybirds]

Phillip Thomas with a better 4.56

[bmorecareful]

The NFL is filled with players who couldn't be nailed down to a specific position coming out of College.

What was Adalius Thomas...he played every position on defense other than CB. JJ was an incredibly undersized DT. McClain...Kruger...all those guys didn't have a position nailed down...and those are just on our team.

And as for the "gambling"...If you know what you are doing out there and have great instincts, what looks like gambling to you or me is really just a great feel for the game and film study. Ed Reed rode "gambling" in the secondary to the HOF.

And he's the same weight and an inch shorter than Webbie.

And nobody here is talking about taking him high...is it really a problem if he is a 4th or 5th round pick?

All that being said (some I agree with, some I think is being overblown)...every single person in this thread and others has been talking about taking him in the mid rounds.

Calm down guys, just because some of us like him a lot doesn't mean that we are trying to take him with our first or second round pick.

My point was really moreso that he would have been in the 4th or 5th probably EVEN WITHOUT the off-field concerns... but his draft stock is going to really hinge totally on the impact he made in the interviews in terms of salvaging his character.

There could easily be a team that feels he's evinced enough candor and built up enough trust to take him in the 3rd... or he could fall totally out of the draft. It really all hinges on things we CAN'T know right now. I said he was 50/50 to get drafted at all a few months ago and I'm not sure how much (if at all) those odds have changed.

I don't think I'd want the Ravens to draft him in the 4th or 5th. My strategy would be simple: wait and see if another team wants him to be their headache until you get deep into day 3. If he's still sitting there waiting for a call in the 6th or 7th, then I'd give it a shot. I would just let the other 31 teams dictate his terms.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

My point was really moreso that he would have been in the 4th or 5th probably EVEN WITHOUT the off-field concerns... but his draft stock is going to really hinge totally on the impact he made in the interviews in terms of salvaging his character.

There could easily be a team that feels he's evinced enough candor and built up enough trust to take him in the 3rd... or he could fall totally out of the draft. It really all hinges on things we CAN'T know right now. I said he was 50/50 to get drafted at all a few months ago and I'm not sure how much (if at all) those odds have changed.

I don't think I'd want the Ravens to draft him in the 4th or 5th. My strategy would be simple: wait and see if another team wants him to be their headache until you get deep into day 3. If he's still sitting there waiting for a call in the 6th or 7th, then I'd give it a shot. I would just let the other 31 teams dictate his terms.

I just don't agree that he'd be a 4th or 5th round guy without the concerns...we've seen a lot of small corners who can't cover in college get drafted in that range and even higher. CB's who've barely made any plays at all in college.

He has at least shown that he can make big plays in big games in college and that while he's small, he can run really fast and has really good movement skills.

No way a guy like that, even if they aren't a shut down CB lasts until the 5th round in a CB starved league. Those rounds are for the most part a wasteland for NFL corners...guys who are big, but slow...guys who are small, but fast...and for the most part, filled with CB's who haven't made plays in college at all and couldn't cover in college.

FWIW, I respect your opinion regarding where you would take him with his character concerns...I respect anyone who is skeptical of him in that regard. But I just don't agree at all that he was just this roving guy who can't cover and was saved by the rest of the LSU defense...as if he was some type of hindrance. The guy can play and is a football player with very good athletic skills. Those are very valuable traits at CB.

[NCRAVEN]

My point was really moreso that he would have been in the 4th or 5th probably EVEN WITHOUT the off-field concerns... but his draft stock is going to really hinge totally on the impact he made in the interviews in terms of salvaging his character.

There could easily be a team that feels he's evinced enough candor and built up enough trust to take him in the 3rd... or he could fall totally out of the draft. It really all hinges on things we CAN'T know right now. I said he was 50/50 to get drafted at all a few months ago and I'm not sure how much (if at all) those odds have changed.

I don't think I'd want the Ravens to draft him in the 4th or 5th. My strategy would be simple: wait and see if another team wants him to be their headache until you get deep into day 3. If he's still sitting there waiting for a call in the 6th or 7th, then I'd give it a shot. I would just let the other 31 teams dictate his terms.

I disagree with that completely. With his athleticism he could be a great guy to shutdown (or play with) in the slot on guys like Welker.

I think he compares very favorably with Webb.

[Doctor]

I definitely don't agree that Mathieu would have been a 4th or 5th round pick if he'd played ball this season and was coming into the process clean. I think he would have been a mid-2nd to early-3rd, and the off-the-field stuff has pushed him down into that 4,5,6 range.

The kid makes plays.

How big was Corey Ivy? He was a short dude. He wasn't nearly the player at Oklahoma that Mathieu was in his time at LSU, and I always liked him as a Nickel / Dime defender. If the Honey Badger is there in 4 or 5, I would absolutely use one of those comp picks on him.

[bmorecareful]

I just don't agree that he'd be a 4th or 5th round guy without the concerns...we've seen a lot of small corners who can't cover in college get drafted in that range and even higher. CB's who've barely made any plays at all in college.

He has at least shown that he can make big plays in big games in college and that while he's small, he can run really fast and has really good movement skills.

No way a guy like that, even if they aren't a shut down CB lasts until the 5th round in a CB starved league. Those rounds are for the most part a wasteland for NFL corners...guys who are big, but slow...guys who are small, but fast...and for the most part, filled with CB's who haven't made plays in college at all and couldn't cover in college.

FWIW, I respect your opinion regarding where you would take him with his character concerns...I respect anyone who is skeptical of him in that regard. But I just don't agree at all that he was just this roving guy who can't cover and was saved by the rest of the LSU defense...as if he was some type of hindrance. The guy can play and is a football player with very good athletic skills. Those are very valuable traits at CB.

I disagree with that completely. With his athleticism he could be a great guy to shutdown (or play with) in the slot on guys like Welker.

I think he compares very favorably with Webb.

All I can tell you guys is that I haven't seen this on tape. Does he have ballhawking ability? Yes. Does he hit hard for his size? Yes. Does he make splash plays? Yes.

But the guy DOES NOT cover receivers well man-to-man. He got burned a lot against a lot of different types of receivers in college and his man-to-man coverage has a lot of weaknesses. He can't press at all; he is constantly gambling and guessing and allowing deep separation; his route recognition needs work; and worst of all, his tackling technique is atrocious. The tape is out there... watch his game vs. Tennessee to see Da'Rick Rogers eat him alive (carried him 15 yards downfield on one catch because Mathieu had no technique and no strength to bring him down), watch both Bama games, watch the Georgia game... it just jumps right off the tape. He's GOING to get beaten a lot in the NFL if he doesn't change quite a bit as a player.

I like Mathieu as a prospect, but I like what he is, not what he "could be," and that's why I have him graded as more of a mid-round prospect. The Heisman balloting doesn't matter, the nicknames don't matter. He's Javier Arenas with more hype, and Arenas was a phenomenal college player who hasn't really settled in as a high-impact every-down NFL defender. Mathieu is going to make plays for you in the NFL, but as a special teams and "package" player. Based strictly on what he is right now, he is NOT going to be a dependable coverage CB, even in the slot. Doesn't mean he won't improve, but I put more stock in what a prospect is right now rather than what he could be.

[BcRaven]

Question : Don't we have a "Mathieu" on our roster now? His name is Asa Jackson... Bc

[Raveninwoodlawn]

All I can tell you guys is that I haven't seen this on tape. Does he have ballhawking ability? Yes. Does he hit hard for his size? Yes. Does he make splash plays? Yes.

But the guy DOES NOT cover receivers well man-to-man. He got burned a lot against a lot of different types of receivers in college and his man-to-man coverage has a lot of weaknesses. He can't press at all; he is constantly gambling and guessing and allowing deep separation; his route recognition needs work; and worst of all, his tackling technique is atrocious. The tape is out there... watch his game vs. Tennessee to see Da'Rick Rogers eat him alive (carried him 15 yards downfield on one catch because Mathieu had no technique and no strength to bring him down), watch both Bama games, watch the Georgia game... it just jumps right off the tape. He's GOING to get beaten a lot in the NFL if he doesn't change quite a bit as a player.

I like Mathieu as a prospect, but I like what he is, not what he "could be," and that's why I have him graded as more of a mid-round prospect. The Heisman balloting doesn't matter, the nicknames don't matter. He's Javier Arenas with more hype, and Arenas was a phenomenal college player who hasn't really settled in as a high-impact every-down NFL defender. Mathieu is going to make plays for you in the NFL, but as a special teams and "package" player. Based strictly on what he is right now, he is NOT going to be a dependable coverage CB, even in the slot. Doesn't mean he won't improve, but I put more stock in what a prospect is right now rather than what he could be.

Sounds like a technique issue.

You don't think coaches think they can fix that?

[RavenScallywag]

My friend, who is Ukranian by birth, is OVER THE MOON about Margus Hunt. Keeps telling me he should be a top 20 pick, freak of nature.

I told him I'd bet him 20 bucks the guy won't get drafted in 1st round. Who's more nuts?

[Jeremiah W]

Question : Don't we have a "Mathieu" on our roster now? His name is Asa Jackson... Bc

You always need more corners. Honey Badger is a baller. He don't give a shit. The Webb comparison is a good one.

[NC Raven]

Those were the same issues that Ladarius Webb faced. Webb played everywhere in college including on offense. They're both around the same size. Mathieu isn't going to be a 1st round pick so I don't think there will be pressure by the team that drafts him to push him into a particular spot. They'll use him in their nickel and dime packages and see what he can do. I see him ultimately as a FS but it would not surprise me if that doesn't happen until year 3.

My memory is getting hazy now, but I recall Webb having a much better but similar problem. That is, Webb was viewed as a guy who could either play CB or FS, but there was no question he could do both. It was just a matter of which was the better position for him, but it wasn't like he wasn't going to find a role.

Whereas, people are kinda saying maybe Mathieu is a FS, or maybe he's a CB, but he isn't clearly cut out to be either one. He might not be either. That's his main drawback.

Again, this is one of those guys where, if he's a terrific gunner and he's able to contribute on the kick-block team and the coaches think he can be coached up into a dime role, great. Take a flyer with a 4th or 5th or what have you if there aren't more pressing needs at that point. I don't care about the weed stuff, and he won't command a high enough draft pick where it'll matter if he turns out to be a flop. Athletically there's some upside there, so if you get a plus-ST guy with dime ability, you consider it a value pick due to the playmaking upside.

Also I agree with you that maybe in year 3 his role becomes more apparent. Get him into camp, training, games, etc and see how well he meshes with the rest of the secondary, and where he fits. Once he learns the system, he may turn out to be very adaptable.

Now, about those 4 reps on the bench press...... Dude! Come on!