2013 NFL Scouting Combine Thread

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 02-23-2013, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

You are missing my point. I'm talking about DTs. Some people seem to be against Jesse Williams, because he isn't an ideal pass rushing DT (which is debatable IMO), but forget that players like him allow others around him to get an easier time making plays, rushing the passer etc. Casey Hampton wasn't only useful against the run, he helped the edge rushers have an easier time getting to the QB.

We had one of the worst rushing defenses in football in 2012, its an area that we must improve.

No I'm not missing your point...I'm saying there are DT's who can do both.

I would not want a DT who is inept at stopping the run either.

And I'm not even saying those one dimensional guys don't have a place in the NFL...just not in the first round IMHO.

Winning in the NFL is based on QB play and the passing game. Those 200 yard games...we still won those games because you don't get points by running the ball.

And Casey Hampton was very, very rarely on the field on passing downs, even in his prime, so I don't know where you are getting that he made it easier for others to get to the QB.

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**wickedsolo** · 02-23-2013, 06:27 PM

The 40 only matters for skill positions.

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**Raveninwoodlawn** · 02-23-2013, 06:32 PM

I thought Kyle Long looked like he has the athletic ability to be a good developmental LT...I'd love to take a shot on him late on day 2

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**leachisabeast** · 02-23-2013, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

No I'm not missing your point...I'm saying there are DT's who can do both.

I would not want a DT who is inept at stopping the run either.

And I'm not even saying those one dimensional guys don't have a place in the NFL...just not in the first round IMHO.

Winning in the NFL is based on QB play and the passing game. Those 200 yard games...we still won those games because you don't get points by running the ball.

And Casey Hampton was very, very rarely on the field on passing downs, even in his prime, so I don't know where you are getting that he made it easier for others to get to the QB.

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Those guys coming out of college that can do both (rush the passer, and stop the run) usually go in the top 15, as you will see with Louteilei, Floyd, and Richardson. We are picking at 32, and aren't going to find many guys without issues. If you can find a DT who is at least great at stopping the run, I'm taking him at 32, purely because there aren't many other options at that point. Had we been picking a little higher, maybe I'd agree with you.

Besides, I think Jesse Williams is more along the lines of Vince Wilfolk and is a lot more versatile than Hampton. He can play 5 technique aswell as NT.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 02-23-2013, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Those guys coming out of college that can do both (rush the passer, and stop the run) usually go in the top 15, as you will see with Louteilei, Floyd, and Richardson. We are picking at 32, and aren't going to find many guys without issues. If you can find a DT who is at least great at stopping the run, I'm taking him at 32, purely because there aren't many other options at that point. Had we been picking a little higher, maybe I'd agree with you.

Besides, I think Jesse Williams is more along the lines of Vince Wilfolk and is a lot more versatile than Hampton. He can play 5 technique aswell as NT.

Of course the best go early...the best/most versatile at all positions go earlier than others. But that doesn't mean that you can't get them later.

And frankly, with that approach, you can get high quality one dimensional guys later too.

And the big reason we disagree about Williams in particular is that you think he is comparable to Wilfork...and I totally disagree.

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**leachisabeast** · 02-23-2013, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Of course the best go early...the best/most versatile at all positions go earlier than others. But that doesn't mean that you can't get them later.

And frankly, with that approach, you can get high quality one dimensional guys later too.

And the big reason we disagree about Williams in particular is that you think he is comparable to Wilfork...and I totally disagree.

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Greg Cosell said that he has really quick feet and plays a lot smaller than he is (in a good way) that to me is similar to Wilfolk. Please tell me how you think he is totally not comparable to Wilfolk?

My takes from this game are.

- Any talk about him having no potential as a pass rusher is nonsense, there are several occasions where he is collapsing the pocket and forcing Bray into making bone headed throws.
- Total force in the run game, which goes without saying.
- Consistent motor, and doesn't really seem to take plays off like a lot of the big guys do.
- Jumps up to bat the ball down a lot.
- At times he was being triple teamed.
- There were times when he was lining up opposite a future NFL guard in Dallas Thomas and bull rushing him backwards.
- DOesn't just line up at NT, he offers versatility can can play as a 3-4 end too.

To me has potential to be an every down DT in this league. I think a lot of people are mistaking him to be just another elite college run stuffer from Alabama who wont make much of a difference in the NFL. I cannot disagree more, and I would put him number 4 on DT rankings.

**alien bird** · 02-23-2013, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

I thought Kyle Long looked like he has the athletic ability to be a good developmental LT...I'd love to take a shot on him late on day 2

He will probably be gone earlier than later on day two.

**JoeCool5** · 02-23-2013, 07:25 PM

Kyle Long definitely made a lot of money today. He's a great athlete for his size. Can play guard or tackle.

**landshark52** · 02-23-2013, 07:35 PM

I completely agree with Leach on Jesse Williams. The guy is an extremely stout nose tackle against the run and like Leach says he can push the pocket as well. I believe he has the potential to be a good pass rusher because of the athlete he is. He has a background of rugby similar to Ngata. Williams is no Ngata but he is not a Mount Cody either. He actual has athleticism and has special upper body strength with great feet. Cody I think got something like 21 reps at the combine. Williams has said he expects to break the combine bench press record, so I would expect him to get 40+ in reps. He would make our whole front 7 better.

**Paintballguy** · 02-23-2013, 07:36 PM

Jesse Williams benched 600 lbs. That dude is a monster.

**The Excellector** · 02-23-2013, 07:42 PM

While we are enjoying the Scouting Combine, let us not veer too far from the foundation of how the Ravens front office works.

First and foremost, they judge a player by college production and tape. When we talk about players we want or styles that we want the Ravens to adapt, let us not forget the style that they embrace. They look for players to fit the system. When Bart Scott left, they looked for someone who could give them what he gave them. That ended up being the Undrafted Free Agent, Dannell Ellerbe. When Jarret Johnson left, they looked for another Jarret Johnson. That was Courtney Upshaw.

When I approach the draft, I always tend to look at what the unit struggled with and what player fits the plug in for the hole, based on what they like in that spot.

With their two ILBs, the Bart Scott guy is expected to blitz and blow up the hole, while the Ray Lewis guy is expected to pick up the pieces and do more in coverage. Ellerbe fits Scott's role very well. The ILB that best fit's Lewis' role is Kevin Minter.

GOTA and I got into a very good debate last year about Stephen Hill. We essentially agreed that the team would not pass up a player like Courtney Upshaw for Hill. Where we disagreed is where the Ravens would be willing to take Hill. I got too caught up in the flash. Now, where some struggled with Upshaw is getting too caught up in his lack of athleticism, compared to the other OLBs in the draft. I went back to the reality that Ozzie goes by college production.

Would the Ravens take him? Where would the play him and how would they use him? In Cameron's offense, I felt like Hill was a great fit. However, in Caldwell's offense, Hill would not have been worth a high round pick, because he is really going to struggle in Caldwell's offense, even if it is catered more to the long ball.

**leachisabeast** · 02-23-2013, 07:50 PM

Kevin Reddick, ILB, out of North Carolina, had an interview with Ted Monachino. Ted asked him to draw up some play designs that he knew about. He's a very athletic LB, says he knows Ellerbe personally, and would love to play along side him and learn from him. He would be a decent 3rd round pick.

Watched some tape on him, he didn't have the most consistent of years, but was great in 2011. Had he had a 2011 type year he would have been a 1st or 2nd round pick IMO. He had a great game against Maryland this year though. Bernard Pierce destroyed Maryland and we ended up drafting him haha.