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  1. #37
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie



    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    There literally CANNOT be a case made that Oher was EVER the best LT on this team outside of the Gaither Injury season since he's been here, yet he has started 2 full seasons there and been HANDED the job over superior players during two training camps without a competition.
    I am not at practices, so I cannot vouch for the change in work ethic from the youngsters, but it better be there when you are CLEARLY not starting the best 22 week in and week out. Besides LT, Mclain over Ellerbe is the only other time I have noticed such a move. Perhaps that is why Josh Bynes was ready to play wen called upon this season. Not being involved in practice I can onl speculate on what I see. What I see is Oher playing far too much LT when better options are available. Hopefully that is a thing of the past, especially if that means that Big Mac simply tries harder in the offseason and weekly practices. Certainly no harm can come from that.
    Like I said, if it's so obvious that Harbs' coaching decisions are costing this team wins, then put together a presentation explaining exactly how and send it to Bisciotti.

    But from where I'm sitting, we are playing the best 22 every week, and when Bryant got into shape and demonstrated that he was one of those 22, he was inserted into the line up. Do you want to keep insisting that Harbs was forced to do it? Fine, but you're ignoring the fact that Bobbie Williams is also a hard working, no quit guy who was healthy the whole playoff run. Why didn't Harbs stick Bobbie in at LG, leave Oher and Osemele alone and just role with that?

    Is it because, despite your constant insistence that you as a fan on a message board know O-line play better than him, he was always willing to play his 5 best guys and Bryant was finally one of them?
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  2. #38

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Don't worry, heard a rumor Ozzie was trading John for Jim H of the 9ers.LOL Lets see how that works out since some here think John is a problem with his coaching ideas. Would everyone be happy then.




  3. #39

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
    I really want to see some sources saying that McKinnie showed up to camp out of shape.

    http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/201...e-more-weight/

    I keep seeing people say this, with absolutely zero proof.
    Seriously?

    I'm guessing you were on vacation in April/May/June when he pretty much sat out all of OTAs working on his conditioning, then arrived at TC overweight, failed his conditioning test and again worked on his conditioning on the side?!?
    ďTalk's cheap - letís go play.Ē - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap




  4. #40
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    I am not sure anybody can say for sure that McKinnie would have been as effective over 20 games that he demonstrated over the Playoffs with a contract on the line. He is a self-motivator when he feels like it, and not when the team needs him.

    I will give Tony credibility for his sources. Those who choose to see Harbaugh as incompetent or McKinnie as JO can have their opinion. Based on everything that has happened to date, I can see that Tony's version makes sense.
    Captain Offense




  5. #41
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Offense View Post
    I will give Tony credibility for his sources. Those who choose to see Harbaugh as incompetent or McKinnie as JO can have their opinion. Based on everything that has happened to date, I can see that Tony's version makes sense.
    It's a nice uplifting story--two hard-headed guys, "cooler heads" prevailing," working their way to mutual understanding & appreciation & a triumphant ending to the season.

    It might even be mostly true. I've seen similar things happen. (Hell, I've been part of some.)

    Right now all that can be said with fairly high confidence that it's the story the Ravens want you to hear.

    And that's not a knock on anyone involved (McKinnie, Harbaugh, the Ravens, the sources, or Tony)--it's just a realistic conclusion based on how media-savvy organizations (like the Ravens) play the publicity game in this day & age.

    Maybe we'll hear something closer to the full story when someone writes his memoirs years from now, when no one would be risking anything--& no one will care much. Right now it's in the interest of everyone involved to put the best possible face on what transpired.

    Myself, I am going to reserve judgement until McKinnie & the Ravens part company. I'll take whatever he has to say then with a large grain of salt--but I won't dismiss it out of hand either. Disgruntled former employees aren't above taking gratuitous shots at the old workplace; OTOH, they are also free to speak without risking retaliation--especially if their new job is the last one they'll get in the field before retiring.




  6. #42

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Do we win the Super Bowl if Jah Reid doesn't stub his toe? Doubtful if you ask me.
    Do we win only 10 games if McKinnie played all year? Doubtful if you ask me.

    Does the fact that Oher continues to play while big fat lazy yet obviously superior players languish on the bench increase the development of young guys? I certainly hope so. Better be more then the fact that we are PERHAPS giving away a few games in doing so.

    There literally CANNOT be a case made that Oher was EVER the best LT on this team outside of the Gaither Injury season since he's been here, yet he has started 2 full seasons there and been HANDED the job over superior players during two training camps without a competition.
    I am not at practices, so I cannot vouch for the change in work ethic from the youngsters, but it better be there when you are CLEARLY not starting the best 22 week in and week out. Besides LT, Mclain over Ellerbe is the only other time I have noticed such a move. Perhaps that is why Josh Bynes was ready to play wen called upon this season. Not being involved in practice I can onl speculate on what I see. What I see is Oher playing far too much LT when better options are available. Hopefully that is a thing of the past, especially if that means that Big Mac simply tries harder in the offseason and weekly practices. Certainly no harm can come from that.
    Oher has been at least the second best LT on the team each of his seasons here, and I don't have a problem thinking a fat, out-of-shape McKinnie wasn't as good an option at LT than Oher.

    I think the assumption that since McKinnie came in and played X well during the final five weeks of the Ravens season he would have played at that same level all year is a flawed one. Harbaugh's approach meant McKinnie earned his spot on the field. Had he just been trotted out there despite not being prepared to play, I don't think he plays at a high level or improves throughout the year.




  7. #43

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Like I said, if it's so obvious that Harbs' coaching decisions are costing this team wins, then put together a presentation explaining exactly how and send it to Bisciotti.

    But from where I'm sitting, we are playing the best 22 every week, and when Bryant got into shape and demonstrated that he was one of those 22, he was inserted into the line up. Do you want to keep insisting that Harbs was forced to do it? Fine, but you're ignoring the fact that Bobbie Williams is also a hard working, no quit guy who was healthy the whole playoff run. Why didn't Harbs stick Bobbie in at LG, leave Oher and Osemele alone and just role with that?

    Is it because, despite your constant insistence that you as a fan on a message board know O-line play better than him, he was always willing to play his 5 best guys and Bryant was finally one of them?
    sorry, McKinnie was way out of shape and played and improved throughout the 2011 season.

    I can't honestly believe that the best 5 OLinemen were playing at any point before the playoffs. Harewood, reid and Williams were all miserable. even if McKinnie was not better then Oher at the beginning of the year, Oher was better then KO, and KO was better then the revolving door at LG. The only potential wrench in this is that McKinnie was claimed to have a hip pointer for a while midseason. Even out of shape, as long as health was not in question there is absolutely no way the line was better with Reid/harewood/williams at LG then McKinnie at LT. I will never believe that.




  8. #44

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    If McKinnie took this long to get in shape, I highly doubt he would have played as well earlier in the season.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  9. #45

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Great piece, and a good reminder: its easy, on the outside looking in, to make drastic statements about what somebody else ought to do, and how "Well, if it were ME, why I'd just......"

    Yeah, yeah, yeah.....

    In real life, 99% of the time it seems, the best decision is when you let your anger/disappointment at somebody subside instead of allowing you to make a snap decision.

    There are times where if I told people what I really thought of them, and got my ego in a wad and decided to just throw my Mighty Thunderbolt down on them from Mt. Olympus, I would be completely screwed right now. Even the people who've royally screwed me up by not paying attention, doing what they need to do, etc I have backed away from the brink of madness and instead of banning them from my life or business, have instead figured out how to get something out of them. I have never regretted that once.

    I could see very easily though, had I unleashed the fury on any of these people and decided to go scorched earth with them, how much more difficult it would have been to fix whatever the problem would have been without them.

    Oddly enough, it turns out that "benching" "releasing" or flat out destroying people is counterproductive -- in real life.

    On sports talk, the internet, etc., it's easy to get caught up in emotion and make snap judgments. It makes for a nice ,clean, bright line opinion. It helps us define ourselves ("I'm a McKinnie backer, you're a McKinnie hater") which makes thought simpler.

    But "making thought simpler" should not be mistaken for "that which makes real problems get solved."

    For the record I was always skeptical on McKinnie and can't recall having ever been on the McKinnie bandwagon as far as wanting him back in the lineup. But as usual, the Ravens made the right decision, which is what makes them such a tremendous organization, through and through.
    When listening to talk shows and callers are calling for overt drastic actions against those that 'did not perform' to the callers specifications - it is easy to see that the callers have never been a leader of men to achieve a objective. No two individuals respond to the same motivations - the true leader picks the motivational tool that the individual responds to, and the tools that the entire team respond to - Harbs, over his 5 years as HC has displayed a mastery of picking the right motivational tools to apply to each individual to coax out their best performances.




  10. #46

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    The spin zone that some have entered in regards to the handling of this story really boggles the mind. Yes, the McKinnie/OL/etc. situation worked out well in the end. NO, that DOES NOT mean that it was handled correctly from day one. The one is not logically connected at all to the other.

    I still have yet to hear a single person, including the author of the piece, address the reality that given all the evidence we have in front of us, there is NO REASON to believe Bryant McKinnie would have played a single snap for the Baltimore Ravens this past season if not for Jah Reid's toe injury. I'm not placing a value judgment of any kind on that reality but it is a fact.




  11. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    How do you type? Why do all of your sentences get broken up instead of just flowing like everyone else? Do you type a sentence or do you hit the return/enter button for no apparent reason?

    I ask this because its hard to read your posts because of this. Your formatting or whatever you're doing is wrong and you should probably try and fix it.
    Sorry, have to chime in & I don't agree. It reads just fine. Actually, depending on the computer or smart phone, broken up paragraphs read easier than one big paragraph.




  12. #48

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    sorry, McKinnie was way out of shape and played and improved throughout the 2011 season.

    I can't honestly believe that the best 5 OLinemen were playing at any point before the playoffs. Harewood, reid and Williams were all miserable. even if McKinnie was not better then Oher at the beginning of the year, Oher was better then KO, and KO was better then the revolving door at LG. The only potential wrench in this is that McKinnie was claimed to have a hip pointer for a while midseason. Even out of shape, as long as health was not in question there is absolutely no way the line was better with Reid/harewood/williams at LG then McKinnie at LT. I will never believe that.
    I tend to agree with this line of thinking, but the reality of the matter is that Harbaugh's decision-making process as head coach goes beyond just one position or one position grouping.

    Even if we can all agree that in a vacuum the 5 best offensive linemen as a group had to include McKinnie, Harbaugh had to make a decision based not just on how to make the OL best, but how to coach his team overall the best. There are off-the-field factors to consider as well regarding to the message you send to your team, like the need to work hard and be in shape in order to play. From Harbaugh's perspective, if he keeps cutting breaks for McKinnie that could demotivate and demoralize other guys on the team. That could create more problems in the long run.

    We all have seen how Rex Ryan and other "players' coaches" around the league repeatedly made excuses for and cut breaks for "talented" malcontents only to create fractures in the locker room that spilled over onto the field. Harbaugh had to avoid that, and keep in mind he also had a locker room that was already deeply fractured this year, if you believe the reports about the uproar over the "padded practice" (which was reported to have been about Cam Cameron more than anything else, even if Harbaugh claimed otherwise.)

    I'm not defending Harbaugh's decision and I think the OP's approach that "well it all worked out in the end so it must have been a good decision" is incorrect. I also agree that the best group of 5 OL all year long included McKinnie and that group was not put together on the field. But I don't think that decision was made out of some personal vendetta or whatever, there was thought behind it, even if it was wrongheaded.




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