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  1. #46

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie



    The spin zone that some have entered in regards to the handling of this story really boggles the mind. Yes, the McKinnie/OL/etc. situation worked out well in the end. NO, that DOES NOT mean that it was handled correctly from day one. The one is not logically connected at all to the other.

    I still have yet to hear a single person, including the author of the piece, address the reality that given all the evidence we have in front of us, there is NO REASON to believe Bryant McKinnie would have played a single snap for the Baltimore Ravens this past season if not for Jah Reid's toe injury. I'm not placing a value judgment of any kind on that reality but it is a fact.




  2. #47
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    How do you type? Why do all of your sentences get broken up instead of just flowing like everyone else? Do you type a sentence or do you hit the return/enter button for no apparent reason?

    I ask this because its hard to read your posts because of this. Your formatting or whatever you're doing is wrong and you should probably try and fix it.
    Sorry, have to chime in & I don't agree. It reads just fine. Actually, depending on the computer or smart phone, broken up paragraphs read easier than one big paragraph.




  3. #48

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    sorry, McKinnie was way out of shape and played and improved throughout the 2011 season.

    I can't honestly believe that the best 5 OLinemen were playing at any point before the playoffs. Harewood, reid and Williams were all miserable. even if McKinnie was not better then Oher at the beginning of the year, Oher was better then KO, and KO was better then the revolving door at LG. The only potential wrench in this is that McKinnie was claimed to have a hip pointer for a while midseason. Even out of shape, as long as health was not in question there is absolutely no way the line was better with Reid/harewood/williams at LG then McKinnie at LT. I will never believe that.
    I tend to agree with this line of thinking, but the reality of the matter is that Harbaugh's decision-making process as head coach goes beyond just one position or one position grouping.

    Even if we can all agree that in a vacuum the 5 best offensive linemen as a group had to include McKinnie, Harbaugh had to make a decision based not just on how to make the OL best, but how to coach his team overall the best. There are off-the-field factors to consider as well regarding to the message you send to your team, like the need to work hard and be in shape in order to play. From Harbaugh's perspective, if he keeps cutting breaks for McKinnie that could demotivate and demoralize other guys on the team. That could create more problems in the long run.

    We all have seen how Rex Ryan and other "players' coaches" around the league repeatedly made excuses for and cut breaks for "talented" malcontents only to create fractures in the locker room that spilled over onto the field. Harbaugh had to avoid that, and keep in mind he also had a locker room that was already deeply fractured this year, if you believe the reports about the uproar over the "padded practice" (which was reported to have been about Cam Cameron more than anything else, even if Harbaugh claimed otherwise.)

    I'm not defending Harbaugh's decision and I think the OP's approach that "well it all worked out in the end so it must have been a good decision" is incorrect. I also agree that the best group of 5 OL all year long included McKinnie and that group was not put together on the field. But I don't think that decision was made out of some personal vendetta or whatever, there was thought behind it, even if it was wrongheaded.




  4. #49
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Even if we can all agree that in a vacuum the 5 best offensive linemen as a group had to include McKinnie, Harbaugh had to make a decision based not just on how to make the OL best, but how to coach his team overall the best. There are off-the-field factors to consider as well regarding to the message you send to your team, like the need to work hard and be in shape in order to play. From Harbaugh's perspective, if he keeps cutting breaks for McKinnie that could demotivate and demoralize other guys on the team. That could create more problems in the long run.
    Thank you for articulating something that has been tickling the back of my brain for awhile.




  5. #50

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Nice article... but something huge is missing. For all the anonymous sources, for all the assumptions and suppositions (no matter how well supported), for all the various navel-gazing, I know one thing that this article completely fails to omit and without which we're not even having this conversation.

    If Jah Reid hadn't been injured, does McKinnie even see the field? Because I don't think he does, and for all the "feel-goodery," what proof do we have that the true explanation isn't the simplest one: that McKinnie played because he was the next man up on the depth chart?
    Along those lines, it really doesn't address WHEN, exactly, McKinnie worked himself into shape. It just sort of assumes that it took him until he was actually inserted into the lineup to get in shape. So the question remains: was the injury to Reid the catalyst, or was that just a coincidence? I don't think it was a coincidence.




  6. #51
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    It will continue to remain a mystery to us for years, just like Cams firing still remains a mystery and will be a mystery for a long long time. Biscotti and Oz strongly deny it came from them, but as much as I love them, I just think Biscotti was the one who made that decision, not Harbaugh.




  7. #52

    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    It will continue to remain a mystery to us for years, just like Cams firing still remains a mystery and will be a mystery for a long long time. Biscotti and Oz strongly deny it came from them, but as much as I love them, I just think Biscotti was the one who made that decision, not Harbaugh.
    If not for the very real anger Harbaugh displayed at Cameron for all the world to see, I might agree. My best guess is that Harbaugh was genuinely ticked at Cameron, and basically got the okay from Bisciotti to fire Cameron with only a few games left in the regular season. I'm sure Harbaugh knew he'd have support from Bisciotti to fire Cam at the end of the season, but to do it so close to the end of the season, with the post season still looming, took the okay from the owner. At least that's how it makes the most sense to me.




  8. #53
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    It's a nice uplifting story--two hard-headed guys, "cooler heads" prevailing," working their way to mutual understanding & appreciation & a triumphant ending to the season.

    It might even be mostly true. I've seen similar things happen. (Hell, I've been part of some.)

    Right now all that can be said with fairly high confidence that it's the story the Ravens want you to hear.

    And that's not a knock on anyone involved (McKinnie, Harbaugh, the Ravens, the sources, or Tony)--it's just a realistic conclusion based on how media-savvy organizations (like the Ravens) play the publicity game in this day & age.

    Maybe we'll hear something closer to the full story when someone writes his memoirs years from now, when no one would be risking anything--& no one will care much. Right now it's in the interest of everyone involved to put the best possible face on what transpired.

    Myself, I am going to reserve judgement until McKinnie & the Ravens part company. I'll take whatever he has to say then with a large grain of salt--but I won't dismiss it out of hand either. Disgruntled former employees aren't above taking gratuitous shots at the old workplace; OTOH, they are also free to speak without risking retaliation--especially if their new job is the last one they'll get in the field before retiring.
    The source was not a member of the Ravens PR dept.
    Follow me on Twitter @ russellstreport




  9. #54
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post

    I still have yet to hear a single person, including the author of the piece, address the reality that given all the evidence we have in front of us, there is NO REASON to believe Bryant McKinnie would have played a single snap for the Baltimore Ravens this past season if not for Jah Reid's toe injury. I'm not placing a value judgment of any kind on that reality but it is a fact.
    And this is a "fact" because?
    Follow me on Twitter @ russellstreport




  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TL24x7 View Post
    And this is a "fact" because?
    Because it's an opinion that fits a narrative that certain posters love to trumpet wherein one of the preeminent coaches in the NFL is not as smart as them.

    John was an idiot for how he treated Gaither, now he's an idiot for how he treated BMac, and it doesn't mean a lick of spit to these future NFL executives of the century that the facts don't support there view because they can always make up new ones.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  11. #56
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by TL24x7 View Post
    The source was not a member of the Ravens PR dept.
    I never said it was, & in fact I never thought it was. Sorry if anyone got that impression.

    So long as your sources work for the Ravens (or work for a company that does work for the Ravens) in some capacity, and want to keep doing so, I stand by my post. I can't think of many jobs around the Castle whose holders wouldn't fit that description. Particularly now that it's a world championship organization.




  12. #57
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    Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    I never said it was, & in fact I never thought it was. Sorry if anyone got that impression.

    So long as your sources work for the Ravens (or work for a company that does work for the Ravens) in some capacity, and want to keep doing so, I stand by my post. I can't think of many jobs around the Castle whose holders wouldn't fit that description. Particularly now that it's a world championship organization.
    so the spin doctors tony talked to were really lying and harbs was NEVER going to work with or play McKinnie until someone from this board emailed him like, 'John, you're an 'okay' coach but really dude come on - we need Bryant if we're gonna make this playoff run. I come from a long line of message board ravens fans and as usual, we know best. please do what i ask and don't think twice about it. lazy? who cares, the guy is huge! unmotivated?! who cares about motivation, just win baby!,'. after that email, of course he HAD to start Bryant and the rest is history. It wasn't his experience as a coach or his benching of big mac so the guy would decide once and for all if he actually wanted to play or maybe even some coordinators and other coaches helping the decision along..nope! everyone is lying about it so that it makes for a 'feel good' story. yea, that makes much more sense.




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