Do you forgive the Colts?

[RavenScallywag]

Before you go nuts and flame, hear me out, I'm interested to hear the responses, especially of older fans (since I was but 6 months old when the Colts left town)...

After the Super Bowl, a friend on twitter who lives in Indiana congratulated Ravens fans and said "Everyone in Indianapolis was cheering for you, so maybe now you can all forgive the Colts???"

Now, I was feeling giddy and pumped up of course, and I liked that they came out in a very positive tone, so I replied that honestly, I had let go of my grudge with Indy long ago, since Bob Irsay was dead and gone, Jim Irsay, while a bit nutty, is nothing like his father, and the Ravens culture has taken hold here anyway.

But, the more and more I thought about it, I was curious...what needed/needs to happen before people can truly "let go" of their hate for the Colts move? Now, granted, you can hate the move itself. Honestly, I hate that Cleveland had to lose their team for us to get one. Now, I am glad that we had Art as an owner over Glazer or Lerner, which is likely who it would've been from the expansion draft...but it does disappoint me that we had to go that avenue to get our team.

But, what would it take for you to let go of your grudge against the Indianapolis Colts and have them be no different to you than the Titans or Texans? Keep in mind, another way to look at it is, when do you think it's fair for Cleveland to let go of their hate for us (I'll leave separate their grudge against Art).

[pslholder96]

I was 14 when the colts left but never felt attached to them like some of our long time posters did. I ended up being a fan of the cowboys from the early 80s until the day the ravens arrive. It certainly didn't help that the Colts games were hardly televised. During my cowboy fandom days I would often wish I had a local team to cheer for. I came away very disappointed when we were dissed during the expansion days. So to conclude I don't like the Colts but my dislike for the colts is far more tame than some of the others who lived and old with the old colts.

[alien bird]

I don't hate the Colts - those players had nothing to do with the move, and neither did their fans. It's been nearly 30 years and two Ravens' Super Bowls ago. That doesn't make Bob Irsay any less of a drunken asshole, but Baltimore is a Ravens' town now.

What I really hate is the angle the pundits seem to always have about Art Modell's move of his franchise to Baltimore. There seems to be a lot of vitriol towards his moving the Browns that doesn't seem to carry over to similar moves: the Rams from LA to St. Louis, the Oilers from Houston to Tennessee, the Colts from Baltimore to Indianapolis, the Cardinals from St. Louis to Arizona. That's just hypocritical.

[Maelstrom]

I was away at college when the Colts moved. It was Bob Irsay, not the Colts, who drew my ire. I got over the move pretty quickly, several years afterwards, but I don't think I've ever forgiven Irsay for moving the team. I never hated Irsay personally, but I did hate that he moved the team. He was a big drunk jerk, but I never hated the person.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't want the horseshoe, name and records back. I am a die hard Ravens fan, but unlike most Ravens fans, I'd jump at the chance to reclaim the Colts name. It will never happen, but if it were my choice, Indy would be named the Hoosiers (an insult here in Missouri, by the way) and the Baltimore Colts would take the field once again.

[RavenScallywag]

One argument I was pondering was this: Now that the Ravens have won two Super Bowls, we technically have the same amount that the Colts franchise has total (SB 5 and SB 41). So in a way, we're back to even with them.

If you use that logic though...Cleveland will at least have to win two SBs before they would be "okay" with our team. Plus, we would've been even with the Colts after SB 35.

[camdenyard]

One argument I was pondering was this: Now that the Ravens have won two Super Bowls, we technically have the same amount that the Colts franchise has total (SB 5 and SB 41). So in a way, we're back to even with them.

Fuck them. And the quote above...see, this is the problem with the way some people think. SB V does not belong to the "Colts franchise". It belongs to Baltimore.

The records belong in Baltimore. Not in some freaking cornfield.

And the younger nutty Satan had the power to do the right thing. He didn't. So again, screw them.

[bacchys]

Fuck them. And the quote above...see, this is the problem with the way some people think. SB V does not belong to the "Colts franchise". It belongs to Baltimore.

The records belong in Baltimore. Not in some freaking cornfield.

And the younger nutty Satan had the power to do the right thing. He didn't. So again, screw them.

It's the only Lombardi for which there are two trophies. Rosenbloom took the original with him when he scampered off to the Rams. Irsay eventually got a copy from the NFL.

[Flipping Birdie]

One argument I was pondering was this: Now that the Ravens have won two Super Bowls, we technically have the same amount that the Colts franchise has total (SB 5 and SB 41). So in a way, we're back to even with them.

Huh? That first Colts Super Bowl belongs to Baltimore, not to that Indianapolis Colts team that I have no animus for (outside the fact that they owned us during the Peyton Manning era). I think the Baltimore reaction to facing the Colts in the playoffs this season said it all - only a small minority of fans even cared that we were facing the Colts. I'm totally cool with the Indianapolis Colts franchise, but I disregard any Indianapolis claim to Colts history pre-Mayflower trucks. Baltimore has 5 NFL championship titles.

[HotInHere]

I usually hate when politicians get involved in anything sports-related. (BCS playoffs, for example.) But I would love to see a law that each teams identity belongs jointly to the owner of that team and the community for which it is named. Baltimoreans own the name 'Baltimore', so when you call your team the Baltimore Colts, I am allowing you to use Baltimore in the title. It is as much 'Baltimore' as it is 'Colts.' And when any team moves to a different community, that name and logo and records should just die. No Jazz in Utah, no (Trolley) Dodgers in L.A., and no Colts in Indy.

But because that law doesn't exist, history is not accurately represented. The difference between Johnny U's records belonging to Indy and Jim Brown's records NOT belonging to Baltimore is one of semantics. Somehow the entire city of Baltimore, for NFL purposes, only came into existence in 1996, and that's just wrong. (I do not want Jim Brown's records, btw, nor do I want those ugly-ass uniforms and a closet full of crap-colored jerseys. All other things being equal, I am happy we got a new name/identity rather than being saddled with Cleveland's old one.)

Over time (and I am 45,) my hatred for Indianapolis has burned less hotly. If they separated out the Baltimore Colts from the Indianapolis Colts in the HoF, I would hate them even less. If they no longer referred to Peyton Manning breaking John Unitas's club records I would hate them less. If they changed their uniforms and developed their own identity -- as the Ravens have done -- I would hate them less. But I will never get to the point where I want them to win, unless they are playing the Steelers, or unless their winning directly benefits the Ravens. And even then, I will just not watch the game, or hold my nose while I do it.

[Flipping Birdie]

(...nor do I want those ugly-ass uniforms and a closet full of crap-colored jerseys.)

I semi seriously PROTEST! The Browns have the best uniforms in the NFL. I disregard any debate on that subject. The Browns uniforms are as classically perfect as the Cincinnati Bengals uniforms are an abomination to all living things with eyes. I thinks it's a shame the Browns are apparently redesigning the uniforms. I hope they don't do anything drastic.

[scottie b]

[QUOTE=HotInHere;586925]no (Trolley) Dodgers in L.A.,

dont forget
AINT NO DAMN LAKES IN L.A. EITHER!!!(minneapolis)

[Ravenswintitle]

the league and their team should recognize the players and accomplishments of the Baltimore Colts do not belong to them.

Love my Ravens but I treat Indy like Pitt and the Pats; I always hope they lose.