Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 79
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    31,929
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?



    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    The Saints are suffering starting this season. They have some huge decisions to make to get under the cap this year. Unless we see significant cap increases 3 years from now we're going to have the same problems. That's the way it is with QBs in the NFL. Even the recent deal that Matt Schaub signed was crazy expensive. Teams need to learn how to deal with this because since they changed the rules no team without a stud at QB has won the Super Bowl.
    They're also suffering because they've drafted poorly. It isn't just the cap.

    The Saints have spent some high draft picks on guys the past few years and really haven't seen the return on them...Malcom Jenkins might be the best player they've used a high draft pick on in the past 4 years.

    Jimmy Graham was obviously a great pick.

    However...
    Martez Wilson, Cameron Jordan, Sedrick Ellis, Charles Brown, Mark Ingram, Patrick Robinson...

    None of those guys have been very good and as a result, the Saints have either suffered or been forced to spend money in free agency, which in turn causes unavoidable roster turnover.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
    http://fatherhoodrules.com




  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    "Merry old England"
    Posts
    9,307
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    The Saints are suffering starting this season. They have some huge decisions to make to get under the cap this year. Unless we see significant cap increases 3 years from now we're going to have the same problems. That's the way it is with QBs in the NFL. Even the recent deal that Matt Schaub signed was crazy expensive. Teams need to learn how to deal with this because since they changed the rules no team without a stud at QB has won the Super Bowl.
    Yup totally agree, but hey, what can you do about it? I don't really see a way around it, the cap simply has to go up.




  3. #18

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Absolutely I did.

    And there were others in agreement who were getting flamed on the boards for thinking it.

    In the age of the cap, no player is worth mortgaging the future success of the team.
    I was probably one of those as well that got flamed for thinking Rice wasnt valuable enough to pay that much for.

    that would be my issue. Anyone that thinks Flacco asking for as much as he can is not acceptable while defending Rice for doing the same. The value of the two positions is completely lopsided in joes favor.

    my only argument for you, because i agree spending big on low value positions isnt the way to stay competitive, is QB is a different animal. You dont win SBs without a great one in this NFL. So yes, there is one player worth mortgaging your cap for and thats a QB that can carry you to wins. if you dont at key positions youll likely never be more than mediocre across the board.
    -JAB




  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    31,929
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Yup totally agree, but hey, what can you do about it? I don't really see a way around it, the cap simply has to go up.
    Which it is projected to go up. I'm not sure when or how much, but it is supposed to increase in the next 3-4 years, IIRC.

    Furthermore, signing Brees to that deal didn't handicap them. Poor drafting has put a damper on their team's overall production.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
    http://fatherhoodrules.com




  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    "Merry old England"
    Posts
    9,307
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    They're also suffering because they've drafted poorly. It isn't just the cap.

    The Saints have spent some high draft picks on guys the past few years and really haven't seen the return on them...Malcom Jenkins might be the best player they've used a high draft pick on in the past 4 years.

    Jimmy Graham was obviously a great pick.

    However...
    Martez Wilson, Cameron Jordan, Sedrick Ellis, Charles Brown, Mark Ingram, Patrick Robinson...

    None of those guys have been very good and as a result, the Saints have either suffered or been forced to spend money in free agency, which in turn causes unavoidable roster turnover.
    Not saying we have drafted that bad, but we've been picking high pretty much every year since 2008, and it makes it hard to find REAL difference makers or stars, we haven't found many of them over the years.

    Michael Oher is average to solid as a RT, not exactly an amazing pick here.

    Paul Kruger has only just emerged into a good pass rusher, and will already be one of our players we've developed nicely that has to go for cap reasons

    Webb is a stud but has had two ACL injuries already

    Cody and Kindle have been busts

    Torrey Smith is good, but hasn't exactly been a number 1 receiver superstar, Jimmy Smith is still up in the air.

    Upshaw is pretty much Jarrett Johnson, which is great, but you need more in the front 7 than an edge setting OLB, KO is probably going to be a superstar, Pierce is going to be very good without any setbacks.

    So thats pretty solid when you look at it, but its not enough to sacrifice your older players who help you make play offs and win SBs to a 20 + million dollar deal on one player, no matter how good he is.




  6. #21

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Absolutely I did.

    And there were others in agreement who were getting flamed on the boards for thinking it.

    In the age of the cap, no player is worth mortgaging the future success of the team.
    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I don't even think Joe Montana in his prime is worth more than 20 million a year. I'm with Houstonraven on this one. I think the Saints may start badly suffering from this too.
    I might agree with these points for any position OTHER than quarterback. But in today's NFL, if you don't have a quarterback, you can't win. Period. If the market value of quarterbacks becomes astronomical (if it isn't already), I'm not sure simply declining to buy on the market is even an option.

    The dynamics of the QB position are just too different. You can't keep cycling through rookie QBs and veteran stopgaps, at some point you need to draft a QB, develop him into an elite player, and then sign him long-term. It usually takes more than 4 years for a QB to really hit his prime, and yet you would be willing to let them walk just because you draw a hard line somewhere between 18 million and 22 million a year?

    You can do that with RBs, WRs, DL, CBs... pretty much any other position... but QBs take too long to develop, their prime years last too long, and the difference between having one and not having one is just way too stark.

    The game is constantly changing. It's too short-sighted to kind of fold your arms and stamp your foot and say that you're going to swim against the tide and not change with the game. You'll get left behind quick, fast, and in a hurry.




  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    over by the dental floss bush
    Posts
    17,950
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Not sure who Joe hasn't convinced or why he needs to convince the world of anything. But he's gonna get paid and he's earned it. He took the risk by turning down the initial offer and it's worked in his favor. The team will figure out when and how to get a deal done, they always do.
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Pasadena
    Posts
    10,130
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Which it is projected to go up. I'm not sure when or how much, but it is supposed to increase in the next 3-4 years, IIRC.

    Furthermore, signing Brees to that deal didn't handicap them. Poor drafting has put a damper on their team's overall production.
    Brees cap number is not that bad at all:

    2012: 10.4 mil
    2013: 17.4 mil
    2014: 18.4 mil

    It jumps in 2015 and this is when the cap is supposed to increase a bit from the TV revenue.

    2015: 26.4
    2016: 27.4




  9. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,959
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    If he throws for 40 touchdowns they will. Even if he then goes one and done in the playoffs while throwing three picks.




  10. #25

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I might agree with these points for any position OTHER than quarterback. But in today's NFL, if you don't have a quarterback, you can't win. Period. If the market value of quarterbacks becomes astronomical (if it isn't already), I'm not sure simply declining to buy on the market is even an option.

    The dynamics of the QB position are just too different. You can't keep cycling through rookie QBs and veteran stopgaps, at some point you need to draft a QB, develop him into an elite player, and then sign him long-term. It usually takes more than 4 years for a QB to really hit his prime, and yet you would be willing to let them walk just because you draw a hard line somewhere between 18 million and 22 million a year?

    You can do that with RBs, WRs, DL, CBs... pretty much any other position... but QBs take too long to develop, their prime years last too long, and the difference between having one and not having one is just way too stark.

    The game is constantly changing. It's too short-sighted to kind of fold your arms and stamp your foot and say that you're going to swim against the tide and not change with the game. You'll get left behind quick, fast, and in a hurry.
    Exactly.

    Teams with young QBs playing well in the 1st contract will have an advantage, but starting over is not an attractive option. Good QBs are still hard to find, even if right now it seems like almost every team has one. You can not afford to be a have not.

    I was right there on the fence with Rice. RB is a position you can find and teams consistantly make the mistake of over paying and over drafting them. On the other hand teams make the mistake so often because the position does have a lot of value and the risk can be worth the reward.







  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,547
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Why so much hand wringing over rumors and speculation started by Peter King in an SI article? I thought we all agreed that SI is garbage, tabloid style rag anymore?

    They will get this done, he is not going to Cleveland or Jacksonville. King wrote an article taking one thing Ozzie said completely out of context and then trying to spin it like a top, while at the same time leaving out the part of the dialog that was actually about Joe(and not letting him go).

    C'mon people, stop falling for this shit.




  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    31,929
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Not saying we have drafted that bad, but we've been picking high pretty much every year since 2008, and it makes it hard to find REAL difference makers or stars, we haven't found many of them over the years.

    Michael Oher is average to solid as a RT, not exactly an amazing pick here.
    Oher is better than Bushrod and Charles Brown...Brown doesn't even play. IIRC, he was a 2nd round pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast
    Paul Kruger has only just emerged into a good pass rusher, and will already be one of our players we've developed nicely that has to go for cap reasons
    Kruger is better than Martez Wilson and Cam Jordan.

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast
    Cody and Kindle have been busts
    And Cameron Jordan was selected with the 24th overall pick and Sedrick Ellis was a top 10 pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast
    Torrey Smith is good.
    He is better than Robert Meachem, who not only was a 1st round pick, but isn't even on the team anymore.

    Teams that draft well can get away with having expensive star players.

    Teams that don't draft well have to constantly go out and buy players to supplement their roster.

    Think about it. When was the last big time free agent acquisition made by the Ravens? Other than trading for Boldin and McGahee, it has been a long time. Last year alone the Saints went out and signed Ben Grubbs, David Hawthorne, Curtis Lofton, Broderick Bunkley, etc.
    Last edited by wickedsolo; 02-12-2013 at 11:51 AM.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
    http://fatherhoodrules.com




  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    31,929
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    Brees cap number is not that bad at all:

    2012: 10.4 mil
    2013: 17.4 mil
    2014: 18.4 mil

    It jumps in 2015 and this is when the cap is supposed to increase a bit from the TV revenue.

    2015: 26.4
    2016: 27.4

    Exactly.

    It's all about how they structure the deal.

    They can structure it so that it really doesn't become a ridiculous cap hit until the last couple of years on the deal. At that point, they may just end up extending Flacco anyway.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
    http://fatherhoodrules.com




  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Severna Park
    Posts
    3,455
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    I think if he could throw a football from his knees 60 yards through the uprights he could get much more respect




  15. #30

    Re: Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Exactly.

    It's all about how they structure the deal.

    They can structure it so that it really doesn't become a ridiculous cap hit until the last couple of years on the deal. At that point, they may just end up extending Flacco anyway.
    which is why contracts should be looked at a little differently with QBs, they almost always see them out and when theyre hurting the cap, they just add an extension. This isnt a position where Flacco gets old and they just cut him. QBs play into thier late 30s or early 40s these days. you cant really compare it to any other position.
    -JAB




Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland