Is there ANYTHING Joe Flacco can do to convince the world he's a truly great player?

[leachisabeast]

I don't even think Joe Montana in his prime is worth more than 20 million a year. I'm with Houstonraven on this one. I think the Saints may start badly suffering from this too.

[wickedsolo]

People just assume that if you don't throw for 5000 yards and 35+ touchdowns you aren't a good quarterback. Plain and simple.

:word

[GOTA]

I don't even think Joe Montana in his prime is worth more than 20 million a year. I'm with Houstonraven on this one. I think the Saints may start badly suffering from this too.

The Saints are suffering starting this season. They have some huge decisions to make to get under the cap this year. Unless we see significant cap increases 3 years from now we're going to have the same problems. That's the way it is with QBs in the NFL. Even the recent deal that Matt Schaub signed was crazy expensive. Teams need to learn how to deal with this because since they changed the rules no team without a stud at QB has won the Super Bowl.

[wickedsolo]

The Saints are suffering starting this season. They have some huge decisions to make to get under the cap this year. Unless we see significant cap increases 3 years from now we're going to have the same problems. That's the way it is with QBs in the NFL. Even the recent deal that Matt Schaub signed was crazy expensive. Teams need to learn how to deal with this because since they changed the rules no team without a stud at QB has won the Super Bowl.

They're also suffering because they've drafted poorly. It isn't just the cap.

The Saints have spent some high draft picks on guys the past few years and really haven't seen the return on them...Malcom Jenkins might be the best player they've used a high draft pick on in the past 4 years.

Jimmy Graham was obviously a great pick.

However...
Martez Wilson, Cameron Jordan, Sedrick Ellis, Charles Brown, Mark Ingram, Patrick Robinson...

None of those guys have been very good and as a result, the Saints have either suffered or been forced to spend money in free agency, which in turn causes unavoidable roster turnover.

[leachisabeast]

The Saints are suffering starting this season. They have some huge decisions to make to get under the cap this year. Unless we see significant cap increases 3 years from now we're going to have the same problems. That's the way it is with QBs in the NFL. Even the recent deal that Matt Schaub signed was crazy expensive. Teams need to learn how to deal with this because since they changed the rules no team without a stud at QB has won the Super Bowl.

Yup totally agree, but hey, what can you do about it? I don't really see a way around it, the cap simply has to go up.

[JAB1985]

Absolutely I did.

And there were others in agreement who were getting flamed on the boards for thinking it.

In the age of the cap, no player is worth mortgaging the future success of the team.

I was probably one of those as well that got flamed for thinking Rice wasnt valuable enough to pay that much for.

that would be my issue. Anyone that thinks Flacco asking for as much as he can is not acceptable while defending Rice for doing the same. The value of the two positions is completely lopsided in joes favor.

my only argument for you, because i agree spending big on low value positions isnt the way to stay competitive, is QB is a different animal. You dont win SBs without a great one in this NFL. So yes, there is one player worth mortgaging your cap for and thats a QB that can carry you to wins. if you dont at key positions youll likely never be more than mediocre across the board.

[wickedsolo]

Yup totally agree, but hey, what can you do about it? I don't really see a way around it, the cap simply has to go up.

Which it is projected to go up. I'm not sure when or how much, but it is supposed to increase in the next 3-4 years, IIRC.

Furthermore, signing Brees to that deal didn't handicap them. Poor drafting has put a damper on their team's overall production.

[leachisabeast]

They're also suffering because they've drafted poorly. It isn't just the cap.

The Saints have spent some high draft picks on guys the past few years and really haven't seen the return on them...Malcom Jenkins might be the best player they've used a high draft pick on in the past 4 years.

Jimmy Graham was obviously a great pick.

However...
Martez Wilson, Cameron Jordan, Sedrick Ellis, Charles Brown, Mark Ingram, Patrick Robinson...

None of those guys have been very good and as a result, the Saints have either suffered or been forced to spend money in free agency, which in turn causes unavoidable roster turnover.

Not saying we have drafted that bad, but we've been picking high pretty much every year since 2008, and it makes it hard to find REAL difference makers or stars, we haven't found many of them over the years.

Michael Oher is average to solid as a RT, not exactly an amazing pick here.

Paul Kruger has only just emerged into a good pass rusher, and will already be one of our players we've developed nicely that has to go for cap reasons

Webb is a stud but has had two ACL injuries already

Cody and Kindle have been busts

Torrey Smith is good, but hasn't exactly been a number 1 receiver superstar, Jimmy Smith is still up in the air.

Upshaw is pretty much Jarrett Johnson, which is great, but you need more in the front 7 than an edge setting OLB, KO is probably going to be a superstar, Pierce is going to be very good without any setbacks.

So thats pretty solid when you look at it, but its not enough to sacrifice your older players who help you make play offs and win SBs to a 20 + million dollar deal on one player, no matter how good he is.

[bmorecareful]

Absolutely I did.

And there were others in agreement who were getting flamed on the boards for thinking it.

In the age of the cap, no player is worth mortgaging the future success of the team.

I don't even think Joe Montana in his prime is worth more than 20 million a year. I'm with Houstonraven on this one. I think the Saints may start badly suffering from this too.

I might agree with these points for any position OTHER than quarterback. But in today's NFL, if you don't have a quarterback, you can't win. Period. If the market value of quarterbacks becomes astronomical (if it isn't already), I'm not sure simply declining to buy on the market is even an option.

The dynamics of the QB position are just too different. You can't keep cycling through rookie QBs and veteran stopgaps, at some point you need to draft a QB, develop him into an elite player, and then sign him long-term. It usually takes more than 4 years for a QB to really hit his prime, and yet you would be willing to let them walk just because you draw a hard line somewhere between 18 million and 22 million a year?

You can do that with RBs, WRs, DL, CBs... pretty much any other position... but QBs take too long to develop, their prime years last too long, and the difference between having one and not having one is just way too stark.

The game is constantly changing. It's too short-sighted to kind of fold your arms and stamp your foot and say that you're going to swim against the tide and not change with the game. You'll get left behind quick, fast, and in a hurry.

[Ravenswintitle]

Not sure who Joe hasn't convinced or why he needs to convince the world of anything. But he's gonna get paid and he's earned it. He took the risk by turning down the initial offer and it's worked in his favor. The team will figure out when and how to get a deal done, they always do.

[Paintballguy]

Which it is projected to go up. I'm not sure when or how much, but it is supposed to increase in the next 3-4 years, IIRC.

Furthermore, signing Brees to that deal didn't handicap them. Poor drafting has put a damper on their team's overall production.

Brees cap number is not that bad at all:

2012: 10.4 mil
2013: 17.4 mil
2014: 18.4 mil

It jumps in 2015 and this is when the cap is supposed to increase a bit from the TV revenue.

2015: 26.4
2016: 27.4

[PurpleApocalypse37]

If he throws for 40 touchdowns they will. Even if he then goes one and done in the playoffs while throwing three picks.