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  1. #85

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?



    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    I didn't, but Rodgers has still been great in the playoffs and has a worse team around him, and isn't that much older than Flacco and has the same mileage as Flacco does. Sorry Ted, you may like Flacco more, but he's not better than Rodgers, and there is really no one that isn't a Ravens fan who would take more than a second answering Rodgers if you gave them a choice between the two.

    - C -
    I wouldn't say the Packers were a worse team at all. And there is nothing taking away from Rodgers here. But let's be realistic here. Rodgers and Flacco have the same amount of rings, and Flacco did it faster and under more difficult circumstances. I appreciate the numbers Rodgers put up, but his offense at least until Cam left was far and away better overall than ours. And he got to sit behind a HOF QB for 3 years before even having to deal with a regular season.

    If you asked me which one I would take, I would flip a coin and be happy with either.




  2. #86
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    The Packers are absolute dogshit on defense, and have a pretty bad Oline, and a very good depth of WRs (albeit slightly overrated IMO). I'd say the Ravens fully healthy team is more talented than GB, Rogers is still the best in NFL IMO.

    With that said, lets not take anything away from what Flacco did either, he was awesome.




  3. #87

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    I wouldn't say the Packers were a worse team at all. And there is nothing taking away from Rodgers here. But let's be realistic here. Rodgers and Flacco have the same amount of rings, and Flacco did it faster and under more difficult circumstances. I appreciate the numbers Rodgers put up, but his offense at least until Cam left was far and away better overall than ours. And he got to sit behind a HOF QB for 3 years before even having to deal with a regular season.
    DUDE!

    Both QBs have five years as the primary starter. No, Joe did not do it faster. And the reason Rodgers' offense was "far and away better than" the Ravens offense is because of Rodgers!!! Match talent-for-talent:
    The GB OL is better than ours when fully healthy, but has dealt with far more injuries. It's an upgrade, but not a huge one.
    Their WRs/TEs are mostly a downgrade from ours. Jennings is very good. But Rodgers has been doing exactly what Peyton Manning did for years...take whatever Joe Schlub they plugged in, and made him look great. The one argument here is that the Ravens mostly haven't had a good #2 WR here which can compare. But the Ravens TEs have across-the-board been better.
    Their RBs are significantly worse than the Ravens backs have been.

    The Packer had a terrific defense in '09 and '10. They won the Super Bowl with one of those two defenses. Other than those two years, their defenses haven't been in the top ten. Of course no one can make a case that Rodgers would in fact have won one or more SBs in Baltimore over the last five years. But the talent the Ravens have had as a whole across the 21 O/D positions beyond QB is unquestionably better than what the Packers have had over the last five years. There's no question in my mind Rodgers would have nothing less than one ring if he was a Raven, and I honestly believe that with the defenses the Ravens had in '08, '09 and '11, and with how far they went in the playoffs those years with Flacco (who in '08 and '09 was not good in the playoffs...no games over 57% passing, 189 his highest yardage total and a 1:6 TD:INT ratio those years), he'd have two or three rings by now.

    FWIW, I also think he wouldn't likely have won a SB this year on the Ravens. What Flacco did this post-season was flat incredible. It's not getting enough accolades, honestly. If one of the current crop of big-time QBs did what Flacco did, it would be talked about as going down as one of the two greatest post-season performances in the history of the game without question.

    - C -
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  4. #88
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    Last 3 years in the playoffs:

    Rodgers: 14 tds 4 ints 270 yards/game 100 QB rating
    Flacco: 18 tds 2 ints 251 yards/game 105 QB rating

    Both have a SB win and SB MVP. They are very close in the playoffs in the last 3 years.
    ahem




  5. #89

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    DUDE!

    Both QBs have five years as the primary starter. No, Joe did not do it faster. And the reason Rodgers' offense was "far and away better than" the Ravens offense is because of Rodgers!!! Match talent-for-talent:
    The GB OL is better than ours when fully healthy, but has dealt with far more injuries. It's an upgrade, but not a huge one.
    Their WRs/TEs are mostly a downgrade from ours. Jennings is very good. But Rodgers has been doing exactly what Peyton Manning did for years...take whatever Joe Schlub they plugged in, and made him look great. The one argument here is that the Ravens mostly haven't had a good #2 WR here which can compare. But the Ravens TEs have across-the-board been better.
    Their RBs are significantly worse than the Ravens backs have been.

    The Packer had a terrific defense in '09 and '10. They won the Super Bowl with one of those two defenses. Other than those two years, their defenses haven't been in the top ten. Of course no one can make a case that Rodgers would in fact have won one or more SBs in Baltimore over the last five years. But the talent the Ravens have had as a whole across the 21 O/D positions beyond QB is unquestionably better than what the Packers have had over the last five years. There's no question in my mind Rodgers would have nothing less than one ring if he was a Raven, and I honestly believe that with the defenses the Ravens had in '08, '09 and '11, and with how far they went in the playoffs those years with Flacco (who in '08 and '09 was not good in the playoffs...no games over 57% passing, 189 his highest yardage total and a 1:6 TD:INT ratio those years), he'd have two or three rings by now.

    FWIW, I also think he wouldn't likely have won a SB this year on the Ravens. What Flacco did this post-season was flat incredible. It's not getting enough accolades, honestly. If one of the current crop of big-time QBs did what Flacco did, it would be talked about as going down as one of the two greatest post-season performances in the history of the game without question.

    - C -
    I completely agree with this. In that I believe Rodgers > Flacco. But at the same time, Joe's 2012/2013 post-season is probably top 3 or top 5 ever.
    Self appointed Ravens SuperFan in the southern hemisphere/New Zealand.




  6. #90

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Fortunately, I can't retaliate because I help mod here. Suffice it say that that was a dumbass statement. If my opinion is "a bit unpleasant" because it does not jibe with yours, you may want to try a different hobby than message boards.
    I didn't say your opinion is "a bit unpleasant", if I'd done that, that would've been a dumbass statement on my part.

    What I said was that your claim that any intelligent football fan would look at Unitas' stats and think "Pfftt, what's the big deal with this Unitas guy, his stats aren't all that great." left me so flabbergasted that I started to feel a headache coming on (which is a slightly unpleasant sensation).

    I mean you're a mod here and a longtime Baltimore football fan--so how could you say that about Johnny U?
    Use some other QB for your argument like Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw or John Elway.

    Because Johnny U? As an example of a great QB with "average" stats?
    That might be the worst possible choice you could go with.

    Especially since here in Baltimore that's almost sacrilegious: like saying Ray Lewis doesn't belong in the HoF because he didn't sack the QB enough.




  7. #91

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    DUDE!

    Both QBs have five years as the primary starter.
    Aaron Rodgers was not the immediate starter out of the draft. That is fact. Flacco was. So yes, Flacco did it faster and with a worse offense.

    And the reason Rodgers' offense was "far and away better than" the Ravens offense is because of Rodgers!!! Match talent-for-talent:
    The GB OL is better than ours when fully healthy, but has dealt with far more injuries. It's an upgrade, but not a huge one.
    Their WRs/TEs are mostly a downgrade from ours. Jennings is very good. But Rodgers has been doing exactly what Peyton Manning did for years...take whatever Joe Schlub they plugged in, and made him look great. The one argument here is that the Ravens mostly haven't had a good #2 WR here which can compare. But the Ravens TEs have across-the-board been better.
    I disagree with the WR's. Until I'd say this year when we got Jacoby Jones, their WR corps were more experienced, and better than our tandems. That's why we drafted Torrey Smith and went and got Jacoby Jones. Because outside of Anquan Boldin and Derrick Mason, we were bringing in scrap heap WR's to try to plug in the holes.

    Their RBs are significantly worse than the Ravens backs have been.
    This I will give you.

    The Packer had a terrific defense in '09 and '10. They won the Super Bowl with one of those two defenses. Other than those two years, their defenses haven't been in the top ten. Of course no one can make a case that Rodgers would in fact have won one or more SBs in Baltimore over the last five years. But the talent the Ravens have had as a whole across the 21 O/D positions beyond QB is unquestionably better than what the Packers have had over the last five years. There's no question in my mind Rodgers would have nothing less than one ring if he was a Raven, and I honestly believe that with the defenses the Ravens had in '08, '09 and '11, and with how far they went in the playoffs those years with Flacco (who in '08 and '09 was not good in the playoffs...no games over 57% passing, 189 his highest yardage total and a 1:6 TD:INT ratio those years), he'd have two or three rings by now.

    FWIW, I also think he wouldn't likely have won a SB this year on the Ravens. What Flacco did this post-season was flat incredible. It's not getting enough accolades, honestly. If one of the current crop of big-time QBs did what Flacco did, it would be talked about as going down as one of the two greatest post-season performances in the history of the game without question.

    - C -
    Right, and Joe Flacco had to get to and win the Super Bowl with a bottom-half defense that was missing it's top pieces most of the year.

    Again, I'm not taking away from Rodgers. But I would just as easily take Flacco knowing what he has been able to do when not handcuffed by the "system" (aka the offensive coordinator). And that un-cuffed Joe Flacco is every bit as good as Aaron Rodgers. And like Rodgers might have done here, Joe SHOULD have had two rings by now and been to 3 Super Bowls (I'm counting all both AFCC games at this point where it came down to dropped passes).




  8. #92

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    Aaron Rodgers was not the immediate starter out of the draft. That is fact. Flacco was. So yes, Flacco did it faster and with a worse offense.
    Rodgers won the Super Bowl in 2010, his 3rd year as a starter.

    Flacco did it in 2012, his 5th year as a starter.

    In fairness to Flacco, in the 2010 Steeler playoff debacle, he threw the potential game-sealing TD to Boldin, but Boldin dropped it.
    Even then the Ravens still could've won if they didn't try a 3 man pass rush on Ben who burned them deep on that bomb to Brown, with Webb unable to cover him because he still hadn't fully recovered from his knee surgery.
    And even then, Joe could've led them back on a dramatic last minute drive, but Housh dropped the pass on 4th down.

    If Joe only had WRs who caught the ball when it hit them square in the hands and an OC who wasn't the most stubbornly oblivious man ever, then Joe would've had a shot at winning a SB in his 3rd year like Rodgers did.

    Of course, he would've had to face and beat Rodgers to do it.




  9. #93

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    It is literally shocking to me that this is a serious discussion...
    ---------------------------------------------------

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  10. #94

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Didn't realize your opinion on the subject was the only correct one. I will retract my opinions from the thread.




  11. #95

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    It is literally shocking to me that this is a serious discussion...
    Why wouldn't it be a serious discussion?

    Flacco just completed one of the best playoff performances in the history of the NFL, statistically speaking. It's arguably better than Montana's '89 season, because Flacco shrugged off numerous would-be sackers to keep drives alive. Not quite Big Ben-like, but with some similarity. I don't recall Montana being challenged that often in the backfield in '89. Flacco had good protection back there, but not like that Niner o-line gave Montana that year.

    This Lombardi punctured the last great excuse of the Flacco-haters (including and especially the Squealer fans): that he hadn't won a championship. It used to be he couldn't beat the Steelers. Then he couldn't beat them at the Steelers. Then it was he couldn't beat Big Ben. Then he couldn't beat Big Ben in Pittsburgh. After all those were done, he couldn't beat Manning and he couldn't win a Super Bowl. Well, count all of those supposed benchmarks as checked off. They're done.

    So now what? What's the excuse for not considering him among the best QB's in the league, and deserving of at least being in the conversation with Rodgers, a QB with just as many SB's and SB MVP's as Flacco?

    I don't think he's as good as Rodgers. At least not now. I think Rodgers's mobility gives him an edge. Perhaps we'll see even more mobility from Flacco next year. He did a lot more moving around- including running up and along the line of scrimmage before delivering a downfield strike- in this year's playoffs than he's done during his career. He is, I suspect, a lot more athletic than most give him credit. People seem to to forget he caught a 44 yard pass in his rookie season (or was that in his sophomore year?). Rodgers doesn't quite have his arm (who does?), but his arm is more than strong enough. I think Rodgers has an edge in accuracy, too. Since they don't play in the same offensive scheme, it's not an easy comparison point for point. I think it's foolish to think that Aaron Rodgers in a Ravens uniform, with Cameron (or worse, Billick!) developing him would be the same Rodgers we see in Green Bay.




  12. #96

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    Rodgers won the Super Bowl in 2010, his 3rd year as a starter.

    Flacco did it in 2012, his 5th year as a starter.
    Rodgers 3rd year as starter was actually his SIXTH year in the league. Yes, those years do count sitting on the bench.

    I think Rodgers is better than Flacco, at least for now. That perception might be different if Joe didn't have receivers let him down so badly in 2010 and 2011 in the playoffs.




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