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  1. #61
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?



    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    @ bacchys

    Stafford and Rivers are both better than Fitzpatrick.
    So is Dalton arguably.

    Otherwise your rankings are a virtual mirror of my own:
    http://russellstreetreport.com/forum...098#post586098
    I can't stand Rivers, and his mental issues override his talent, imo. I don't know what his problem is, but it detracts from his team's ability to win.

    Putting Stafford over FitzPatrick is reasonable. I put Fitz up because he has very similar numbers (save in total yards) and he's throwing to Stevie and not Calvin. The Bills are not as good a team as the Lions.

    Dalton is better, I think, but I'd already ruled out putting any of the young guys (three or less years) in the top ten simply because the sample size is too small. RGIII posted the third best QB rating in 2012 and a whopping 8.14 yards-per-attempt. I want to see what he does over three years- with defensive coordinators having more film on him- before deciding he's among the best. If I were going to put Dalton in over Fitz (or Stafford), I'd have to put Griffin in the top 5.




  2. #62

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    Joe totally carried the team on his back this year. Reg season and playoffs both.
    He almost carried this team to 8-8 if the breaks didn't go their way.




  3. #63

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by seraph View Post
    He almost carried this team to 8-8 if the breaks didn't go their way.
    LOl, must suck to see Flacco breaking records yearly and being the MVP of the SB. Keep hating, maybe the Ravens might lose because of him directly(then you can tell everyone he needs to go). Until then, Still Wacko for Flacco. Top 5 Qb and getting better at 28.




  4. #64

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post
    LOl, must suck to see Flacco breaking records yearly and being the MVP of the SB. Keep hating, maybe the Ravens might lose because of him directly(then you can tell everyone he needs to go). Until then, Still Wacko for Flacco. Top 5 Qb and getting better at 28.
    Well the point is that the win loss record is a lazy argument for comparing quarterbacks.




  5. #65

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by seraph View Post
    Well the point is that the win loss record is a lazy argument for comparing quarterbacks.
    Okay, if you say so.LOL




  6. #66

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by seraph View Post
    Cam almost dragged this team to 8-8 if the breaks didn't go their way--well that and finally being fired for being one of the most incompetent playcallers in the entire league.
    FTFY

    Now, that being said, I agree that you can't judge a QB solely by his win/loss record, though it is one indicator of how good/bad he is, you still need to look at the whole body of work, taking any relevant context (CAM!!!!) into consideration.

    To properly evaluate QBs you really do need to study their film, and of course, know what to look for.




  7. #67
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Seraph is a troll.

    Flacco is a Super Bowl Champion and MVP.

    I am happy.




  8. #68
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Win-loss record is a lazy way to gauge QB's. So is counting SB rings.

    Just looking at stats isn't going to tell you the whole story. If you look at Elway's stats, they aren't exactly eye-popping. If you watched him play, OTOH...




  9. #69

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by admartian View Post
    Top 3 are inarguably Rodgers, Brees, Brady.
    Um, no, Peyton Manning easily has an argument for being in the top three. Or did you not see what he did this year? Manning is almost inarguably a top three QB of all time. The only reason you can argue against it is because he hasn't been as insanely amazing in the post season as he has in the regular season.

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  10. #70
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by seraph View Post
    He almost carried this team to 8-8 if the breaks didn't go their way.
    Okay... what? Like when his game-sealing INCREDIBLE touchdown pass to Jacoby Jones was nullified because of a bogus offensive pass interference?

    Or when the game was secured against the Redskins but the refs completely screwed the pooch on David Reeds fumble recovery on the kickoff? Where they for some reason applied the "wide receiver must maintain possession throughout the entirety of the catch" to a player simply needing to gain possession of the ball before going out of bounds? That was without a doubt a Ravens recovery and game over.

    Now what exactly are the "breaks" that gave him wins? The Cowboys missing a 52 yard field goal, after the Ravens completely botched an onside kick recovery?




  11. #71

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    I rank Flacco ahead of the pack because he has demonstrated that he is a money ballplayer and is just coming into his prime. The only stat which I care about is the playoff "W" and the QB's age. Brady has a better playoff record, but is pushing 36. Peyton Manning (37) has a poor playoff record and has a noodle arm - don't be too surprised if Peyton doesn't come back. Eli Manning (age 32) & Ben R (age 31) have slightly better playoff records. Phillip Rivers (32), Drew Brees (34) and Aaron Rodgers (29) have so-so playoff records.

    looking out 5 years, with most weight given to age and playoff performance, I would rank them:

    (1) Flacco
    (2) Rodgers
    (3) Eli Manning
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  12. #72

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    I rank Flacco ahead of the pack because he has demonstrated that he is a money ballplayer and is just coming into his prime. The only stat which I care about is the playoff "W" and the QB's age. Brady has a better playoff record, but is pushing 36. Peyton Manning (37) has a poor playoff record and has a noodle arm - don't be too surprised if Peyton doesn't come back. Eli Manning (age 32) & Ben R (age 31) have slightly better playoff records. Phillip Rivers (32), Drew Brees (34) and Aaron Rodgers (29) have so-so playoff records.

    looking out 5 years, with most weight given to age and playoff performance, I would rank them:

    (1) Flacco
    (2) Rodgers
    (3) Eli Manning
    You're overvaluing playoff wins.

    Was it Rodgers fault that his receivers dropped several passes against the Giants in the 2011 playoffs and they lost a fairly close game to them.

    Was it Flacco's fault that Boldin dropped the probable game-sealing TD pass against Pittsburgh in 2010? Or Evans in 2011?

    It wasn't Rodgers fault either that his D couldn't stop Keapernick as either a passer or a runner.
    Rodgers still threw 2 TDs against the 49ers and may have thrown a 3rd but DuJuan Harris ran one in from 18 yards.

    Bottomline is the Packers offense scored 3 TDs against the 49ers; the same number as the Ravens' did in the Super Bowl. Rodgers performance was comparable to Flacco's, though he did throw 1 pick; what wasn't comparable was the performance of the 2 defenses/ST--ours did the job (barely, freakin' blackout), their's didn't.

    Rodgers is more mobile than Joe, and right now he's more complete--Joe struggles a bit with the timing/accuracy on short passes.

    I think Brees is better than Joe too for the same reasons; I think the return of Payton brings Brees interceptions back down in the low teens.

    I do put Joe just ahead of Brady because Joe is rising and Brady is starting to show small signs of decline.




  13. #73

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    You're overvaluing playoff wins.
    No, I am not. Playoff results are what it's all about. Preseason, regular season, and, very typical for message boarders, fantasy football, are just preliminary indicators. I could care less how Flacco compared to the other passers in regular season under the NFL's ridiculously convoluted QB rating system. Significantly more important was Flacco's arm getting the Ravens to within a Lee Evans drop of the 2011 SB (which would have been a TD catch under old NFL rules), and this years miraculous SB run.

    If too much emphasis is placed on stats, it would be easy to conclude that Johnny Unitas was just an average QB; yet, Unitas was the NFL's greatest QB in the minds of many who watched him play. A contemporary of Unitas was Sonny Jurgenson, who had great stats, but lost the far majority of games. Unitas, like Flacco, was a winner.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  14. #74
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    You can't quantify clutch ability and Flacco has it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




  15. #75

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    No, I am not. Playoff results are what it's all about. Preseason, regular season, and, very typical for message boarders, fantasy football, are just preliminary indicators. I could care less how Flacco compared to the other passers in regular season under the NFL's ridiculously convoluted QB rating system. Significantly more important was Flacco's arm getting the Ravens to within a Lee Evans drop of the 2011 SB (which would have been a TD catch under old NFL rules), and this years miraculous SB run.

    If too much emphasis is placed on stats, it would be easy to conclude that Johnny Unitas was just an average QB; yet, Unitas was the NFL's greatest QB in the minds of many who watched him play. A contemporary of Unitas was Sonny Jurgenson, who had great stats, but lost the far majority of games. Unitas, like Flacco, was a winner.
    I'm not talking about judging Flacco solely by his regular season stats. Obviously, we all saw the difference between how consistent Joe and the offense played when Caldwell became the OC compared to when Cam was the guy.

    But based on your logic, if Jacoby Jones drops the game-tying TD pass from Joe in Denver, and the Ravens don't even get to the AFC championship, then Joe is...what to you?

    Because I can tell you what he wouldn't have been: Super Bowl champion & MVP.

    So, you believe if the QB plays well enough to win in the playoffs--as Joe did in 2010, 2011 & 2012--but the rest of the team screws up: RBs fumbling, WRs dropping passes, OL missing blocks, the D unable to stop the other team, special teams blunders, too many penalties by other players, bad decisions by the coaches...that SOMEHOW if that team loses, IT'S ONLY THE QB'S FAULT??!

    So, it doesn't matter what the other players do, what the coaches do...because it all rests on the QB. Whether they win or lose, it's entirely on him and no one else.
    Because that's the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from your argument.

    And what you said about Unitas: he led the NFL in Comp 3 times, pass yards 4 times, pass TDs 4 times, yards per avg 3 times, yards per game 4 times, and QB rating 3 times.

    When he retired he held numerous records, like most pass TDs and yardage.
    And most consecutive games with at least 1 TD pass.

    AND YOU HONESTLY THINK HIS STATS WOULD MISLEAD ANYONE, WHO WAS NOT AN ABSOLUTE DULLARD, INTO THINKING HE WAS JUST AN AVERAGE QUARTERBACK?????!!!

    You sir/ma'am have succeeded in stunning me in disbelief.
    Literally stunning me, I can actually feel the sensation in my head.
    It's a bit unpleasant, in fact.
    Last edited by PerpetuallyBored74; 02-17-2013 at 05:26 AM.




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