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  1. #16
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?



    My current top ten assuming everyone's healthy.

    1. Aaron Rogers
    2. Drew Brees
    3. Tom Brady
    4. Peyton Manning
    5. Eli Manning
    6. Joe Flacco
    7. Ben Roethlisberger
    8. Matt Ryan
    9. Collin Kaepernick
    10. RGIII

    Wilson, and Luck just miss out, Luck landed 12th, Wilson landed 11th. I think Lucks slightly overrated at this point, but I think he'll be better than both RG3 and Wilson in time.

    I base my list heavily on play off experience/games won, and how long they've been in the league winning games. The top 7 have all won SBs, pretty crazy when you think of it. I wont get carried away yet with the likes of RGIII having a very good rookie year, because they can come back and have an average year, as seen with Cam Newton. For now, I think Kaepernick and RGIII will be very good, but I'm not yet sold on their long term health or play. I think Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson will both overtake them eventually, because they both look to pass the ball first EVERY TIME in the pocket. No matter how good RGIII or Kaepernick are at throwing, they are always going to try and run and will eventually pay for that.
    Last edited by leachisabeast; 02-12-2013 at 02:05 AM.




  2. #17
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    It's too hard to rank QB's numerically as there are too many variables at different times, such as dome's, type of offence, easy divisions, weapons etcs. I prefer to look at QB ranking in form of tiers, which are generally in no particular order-

    Tier 1- Have shown consistency under different circumstances over a period of a at least a few years.
    Peyton
    Brady
    Brees
    Rodgers

    Tier 2- For whatever reason have yet to show true consistency over a long period of time, or have one or 2 clear weaknesses. All have clear Tier 1 potential.
    Flacco (I would actually put him at the top of this tier for various reasons, and as we all know Cameron has held him back in the past)
    Roethlisberger
    Eli
    Ryan

    Tier 3- Have put up good stats but lack too much consistency and don't seem to be at their best in the biggest games.
    Romo
    Cutler
    Schaub
    Rivers
    Vick
    Stafford
    Dalton (wanted to put him tier 4 as he's yet to really convince me but he has shown promise in helping the Bengals to playoffs in his first 2 seasons.)

    Tier 4- Started in the league long enough to show us that they probably don't have what it takes to be long term starters without major improvement, and their team may need to evaluate where they stand.
    Newton (has talent but a serious attitute problem that he needs to resolve, if he does he could have tier 2 potential)
    Palmer (would have obviously been higher a few years ago, but he has let age get to him in a way the older QB's above him haven't)
    Freeman
    Sanchez
    Kolb
    Bradford (Hard to honestly say as he plays behind a revolving door and might as well have me to throw to)
    Ponder
    Locker
    Cassell
    Gabbert
    Fitzpatrick

    I purposely haven't tiered the rookie QB's (and seriously thought about holding off the Year 2 QB's, but decided to throw them in for a wider picture) as it's too early to say- Look at Newton's decline since last year. I personally think Luck will one day be tier 1, but the others all have to prove they can sustain the running and throwing style. For what it's worth, I wouldn't bet against them.

    This is all very subjective but to me makes more sense than a straight 1-32 ranking. If we were doing a redraft (as seems to be the latest fashion) however, the only guy I would take over Flacco would be Rodgers, as he is the only one in the top tier not looking down the barrel agewise.
    Last edited by Ravenblue; 02-12-2013 at 05:22 AM.
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  3. #18
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    So...(not counting the Bengas game in week 16...because the starters were pulled)...Flacco dominated the Giants, Colts, Broncos, Patriots, and the 49ers...

    5 games, playoffs, tough environments, toughest D's in the NFL...that's not consistent enough? Come on.

    Also, I find it kind of funny that some are ranking Eli over Flacco. Flacco is better than Eli. You want to talking about inconsistency...sheesh...look at Eli's season.
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  4. #19
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Also, I find it kind of funny that some are ranking Eli over Flacco. Flacco is better than Eli. You want to talking about inconsistency...sheesh...look at Eli's season.
    I think that is why we need to hold our breath a bit on Flacco...Last year, Eli went out and said he thought he was in the Tom Brady class of QBs. He got roasted for it, but he took his team to the Super Bowl and won the Super Bowl MVP, for the 2nd time. And look where he was this year. Now, granted, he's almost always had worse INT numbers than Joe did, but he had a step back season, when everyone in New York was probably thinking "Eli just went out and proved he was good enough to be a Super Bowl MVP AGAIN, he's clearly in the elite class now".

    So while clearly Flacco is ahead of Eli RIGHT NOW, it could flip flop in a season.
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  5. #20

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuggsKill View Post
    1. Brady
    2. Manning
    3. Rodgers
    4. Brees
    5. Luck (for next year)
    6. Flacco?
    Don't agree with Luck. Let's see how he does next year without Arians. I would probably put Rodgers, Brees and Brady. I think Manning's body is starting to fail him. I think Brady is starting to deteriorate a bit as well. I think the years of abuse on Ben's body are taking it's toll on his body. If you look at stats Joe has been better through their first 5 years. Ben had one great year where he threw for 32 TDs. The big reason why Ben was always considered elite is he would win games and had two Super Bowls.

    Through 5 year comparison
    Ben 101 TDs 69 Ints
    Joe 102 TDs 56 Ints

    I am using a bit of a double standard in evaluation QBs. I think Flacco has had a ton of potential that has been held back by Cam. I am projecting that Caldwell will do away with the full back and open the offense up more. He will give Joe more easy passes that will allow him to be more consistent. I am guessing that Joe goes for 4k and 30+ TDs this year.




  6. #21
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    I think that is why we need to hold our breath a bit on Flacco...Last year, Eli went out and said he thought he was in the Tom Brady class of QBs. He got roasted for it, but he took his team to the Super Bowl and won the Super Bowl MVP, for the 2nd time. And look where he was this year. Now, granted, he's almost always had worse INT numbers than Joe did, but he had a step back season, when everyone in New York was probably thinking "Eli just went out and proved he was good enough to be a Super Bowl MVP AGAIN, he's clearly in the elite class now".

    So while clearly Flacco is ahead of Eli RIGHT NOW, it could flip flop in a season.
    IMO - and I don't know how this doesn't factor into these types of discussion - Flacco's age in comparison to other's needs to be a VERY important determining factor.

    Peyton is 36 years old. He's not likely to get any better. His arm isn't what it used to be. He probably still has lingering issues in his neck. He is trending downwards.
    Brady will be 36. He likely isn't going to get any better. Hence, he is trending downwards.
    Eli is 32 and while he has flashed brilliance from time to time, he has likely peaked and is as good as he is going to be (which isn't bad...btw).
    Aaron Rodgers is even going to be 30 next season. He is arguably the best QB in the NFL and could potentially get better, but likely has peaked as well.

    Flacco JUST turned 28 and has been trending upwards (slowly until the playoffs/SB this year) pretty much since he got into the league. If we argue that QB's peak between 30-34 years old, then it is reasonable and logical to think that we haven't seen the best of Flacco at all. Frankly, if he continues to be successful (as we saw in the playoffs) under Jim Caldwell, then I don't think there is any doubt that he will at least be a Top 3 QB for the next 4-6 years.
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  7. #22
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    IMO - and I don't know how this doesn't factor into these types of discussion - Flacco's age in comparison to other's needs to be a VERY important determining factor.

    Peyton is 36 years old. He's not likely to get any better. His arm isn't what it used to be. He probably still has lingering issues in his neck. He is trending downwards.
    Brady will be 36. He likely isn't going to get any better. Hence, he is trending downwards.
    Eli is 32 and while he has flashed brilliance from time to time, he has likely peaked and is as good as he is going to be (which isn't bad...btw).
    Aaron Rodgers is even going to be 30 next season. He is arguably the best QB in the NFL and could potentially get better, but likely has peaked as well.

    Flacco JUST turned 28 and has been trending upwards (slowly until the playoffs/SB this year) pretty much since he got into the league. If we argue that QB's peak between 30-34 years old, then it is reasonable and logical to think that we haven't seen the best of Flacco at all. Frankly, if he continues to be successful (as we saw in the playoffs) under Jim Caldwell, then I don't think there is any doubt that he will at least be a Top 3 QB for the next 4-6 years.
    Just because he's younger, that doesn't mean he should be ranked higher than others who are still better than him. I'm doing a ranking list based on right NOW. I think if this is the Flacco we're going to be getting for the next few years, he'd probably be higher than Eli and maybe even Peyton and Tom Lady, but I still don't 100 % trust Joe to be that consistent. Right now, Joe is the Eli Manning of the AFC, just the way I see it for now, lets see if he changes that perception (which is barely a bad perception anyway).




  8. #23

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    I know I shouldn't watch ESPN SportsCenter if I want objective reporting on the Ravens, but the only thing they could bring themselves to say about the upcoming Joe Flacco contract.negotiations was how he is going to get a contract worth $20,000,000.00 a year and in the regular season he ranked 25 in the league, between Jake Locker an Michael Vick. What they continue to ignore is the wins and losses for the past 5 years, playoff appearances, playoff wins, and Super Bowl win and MVP. It's frustrating because he has played every game in the past 5 years, Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, and a lot of other QBs can't say that. I'm just tired of all of the haters, I hope Ray Lewis shuts these morons up when he starts working for ESPN.




  9. #24
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Bru View Post
    I know I shouldn't watch ESPN SportsCenter if I want objective reporting on the Ravens, but the only thing they could bring themselves to say about the upcoming Joe Flacco contract.negotiations was how he is going to get a contract worth $20,000,000.00 a year and in the regular season he ranked 25 in the league, between Jake Locker an Michael Vick. What they continue to ignore is the wins and losses for the past 5 years, playoff appearances, playoff wins, and Super Bowl win and MVP. It's frustrating because he has played every game in the past 5 years, Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, and a lot of other QBs can't say that. I'm just tired of all of the haters, I hope Ray Lewis shuts these morons up when he starts working for ESPN.
    I saw that too. It's the same network that will suck Tebow's nuts for winning a game after throwing 5 passes. They have no objectivity at all.




  10. #25
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Just because he's younger, that doesn't mean he should be ranked higher than others who are still better than him. I'm doing a ranking list based on right NOW. I think if this is the Flacco we're going to be getting for the next few years, he'd probably be higher than Eli and maybe even Peyton and Tom Lady, but I still don't 100 % trust Joe to be that consistent. Right now, Joe is the Eli Manning of the AFC, just the way I see it for now, lets see if he changes that perception (which is barely a bad perception anyway).
    No, it doesn't mean that he should be ranked higher. However, there is an element of trends involved in this that a lot of people don't want to factor in.

    When you (or anyone) says "Here are the top ranked <insert position here>", then you have to take into account who is trending upwards, who has likely peaked, and who is trending downwards. Prior to Jim Caldwell taking the reigns, many on here thought that Flacco's upward trend had stopped and he had peaked. He was as good as he was going to be. After Caldwell, we clearly saw that Flacco had not peaked and was continuing to trend upwards. Hence, why I think he should be ranked higher than Eli.
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  11. #26
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    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    No, it doesn't mean that he should be ranked higher. However, there is an element of trends involved in this that a lot of people don't want to factor in.

    When you (or anyone) says "Here are the top ranked <insert position here>", then you have to take into account who is trending upwards, who has likely peaked, and who is trending downwards. Prior to Jim Caldwell taking the reigns, many on here thought that Flacco's upward trend had stopped and he had peaked. He was as good as he was going to be. After Caldwell, we clearly saw that Flacco had not peaked and was continuing to trend upwards. Hence, why I think he should be ranked higher than Eli.
    Not arguing with those facts, but I rank on right now rather than whats going to happen in a few months, depends on what your philosophy is when ranking players I guess.




  12. #27

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    You guys knocking Luck are insane. He had one of the greatest rookie seasons ever. He took a team that won two games last year and has such a massive talent deficiency that they're sickeningly under the cap and had no business winning more than five this year, and he turned them into an 11 win playoff team who lost to the eventual Super Bowl champions. If you offered me the chance to pick any QB in the NFL for my team for the next decade at absolutely no cost, it's pretty much a no brainer Luck is the guy to choose.

    All the guy has done at every single level is play sick football and win games. He's the best QB prospect in the NFL long term and it's not close.

    - C -
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  13. #28

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    You guys knocking Luck are insane. He had one of the greatest rookie seasons ever. He took a team that won two games last year and has such a massive talent deficiency that they're sickeningly under the cap and had no business winning more than five this year, and he turned them into an 11 win playoff team who lost to the eventual Super Bowl champions. If you offered me the chance to pick any QB in the NFL for my team for the next decade at absolutely no cost, it's pretty much a no brainer Luck is the guy to choose.

    All the guy has done at every single level is play sick football and win games. He's the best QB prospect in the NFL long term and it's not close.

    - C -
    I certainly think hes promising and under this fantasy draft would be a top pick for sure, but I dont think we can crown him the best of the next decade, by a long shot no less, based off his rookie season alone. 4400 yards and 23 TDs looks damn good but 627 attempts at 54% to get there with 18 INTs isnt exactly awe inspiring. Theres certainly a case to be made that Flacco is better the next 10 years simply because hes in his peak now as opposed to Luck still needing a few years to get there. what happened in Indy is certainly partially due to his credit (no question hes better than what they had out there last year) but I think its pretty well known that team quit last year when manning went down and didnt perform as well as capable. The coaching staff changed the atmosphere which was also a big factor in the turn around.
    -JAB




  14. #29

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    My current top ten assuming everyone's healthy.

    1. Aaron Rogers
    2. Drew Brees
    3. Tom Brady
    4. Peyton Manning
    5. Eli Manning
    6. Joe Flacco
    7. Ben Roethlisberger
    8. Matt Ryan
    9. Collin Kaepernick
    10. RGIII

    Wilson, and Luck just miss out, Luck landed 12th, Wilson landed 11th. I think Lucks slightly overrated at this point, but I think he'll be better than both RG3 and Wilson in time.

    I base my list heavily on play off experience/games won, and how long they've been in the league winning games. The top 7 have all won SBs, pretty crazy when you think of it. I wont get carried away yet with the likes of RGIII having a very good rookie year, because they can come back and have an average year, as seen with Cam Newton. For now, I think Kaepernick and RGIII will be very good, but I'm not yet sold on their long term health or play. I think Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson will both overtake them eventually, because they both look to pass the ball first EVERY TIME in the pocket. No matter how good RGIII or Kaepernick are at throwing, they are always going to try and run and will eventually pay for that.

    This would be my list, except:
    Place Luck in instead of RGIII.
    I'd then put Newton at 12 and RGIII at 13. I simply think that RGIII is set to have the biggest sophmore slumps of them all(including Kaepernick as a "rookie" despite the fact that he was actually in the league and not really playign last year. I jsut think RGIII's small stature and inability to avoid contact cost him a career changing injury, and post injury he will be a shell of what he was this past year.

    After that group come the Staffords, Cutlers, Schaub's, Dalton's, etc... and somewhere after every QB that's decent has been listed, we ist Romo before we get to the craptastic likes of Vick, Fitzgerald, Freeman, Bradford, Tebow, etc. Last would be Sanchez, right after Kolb and Lindley,Gabbert, etc.




  15. #30

    Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    You guys knocking Luck are insane. He had one of the greatest rookie seasons ever. He took a team that won two games last year and has such a massive talent deficiency that they're sickeningly under the cap and had no business winning more than five this year, and he turned them into an 11 win playoff team who lost to the eventual Super Bowl champions. If you offered me the chance to pick any QB in the NFL for my team for the next decade at absolutely no cost, it's pretty much a no brainer Luck is the guy to choose.

    All the guy has done at every single level is play sick football and win games. He's the best QB prospect in the NFL long term and it's not close.

    - C -
    I agree. Throw all the players onto a list, if I'm the first team to pick a player he would be my pick. He appears to have more staying power then the run-first guy's, from my perspective, and basically everyone's in reference to RGIII, who, IMO at this moment, might not even be a first rounder in that same scenario(injury considered).




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