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Thread: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
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10-06-2006, 07:50 AM #85Regular 1st Stringer
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10-06-2006, 11:13 AM #86Regular 1st Stringer
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Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
I know, it's kinda sad really.. :(
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10-06-2006, 11:38 AM #87
Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
It's okay to criticize McNair as long as you acknowledge the fact McNair is a far superior player to Boller.
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10-06-2006, 12:03 PM #88
Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
It's okay to criticize McNair as long as you acknowledge the fact McNair is a far superior player to Boller.
I have said this endlessly. But if I make the mistake, that I apparently don't have permission to make, of stating we can see that McNair's issues behind this OL mean that Boller can't be written off because behind a good OL we would see his numbers improve just like we would McNair's.
Yes, McNair is better, but his problems thus far show that our passing problems with Boller were certainly not all of his. He had piss-poor targets for a while, and never had an OL.
Boller, 69.2 rating, 71.8 last year with Mason, Clayton and Heap
McNair, 75.4 rating here
Yes, McNair is an upgrade, but Boller isn't as bad as many think, he has not had great talent around him, particularly the OL.
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10-06-2006, 12:05 PM #89
Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
I have said this endlessly. But if I make the mistake, that I apparently don't have permission to make, of stating we can see that McNair's issues behind this OL mean that Boller can't be written off because behind a good OL we would see his numbers improve just like we would McNair's.
If my theory is correct, McNair will eventually destroy Boller's production, not to mention show twice the guts of Boller in clutch situations, once McNair finally gets in his comfort zone.
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10-06-2006, 12:16 PM #90
Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
I'll challenge that notion right now. McNair's issues have very little to do with the OL and very much to do with not knowing the offense.
I am guessing you aren't claim we have a decent pass protecting OL, are you? McNair is much calmer behind this OL, and that certainly helps.
... show twice the guts of Boller in clutch situations ...
I don't get the bashing of Boller beyond critiquing his play. Does this guy sneak out at night and beat puppies and I don't know about it? The criticism seems to go beyond his play, like in this case questioning his guts.
Most of us "huggers" will admit Boller's play was bad, with a few bright moments. I think the guy has gotten the shitty end of a few sticks here and would like to see him get a chance with good weapons and a little bit better OL.
If we are going to talk about comfort, Boller had 7-8 games with Mason and Clayton last year. His play obviously improved as his comfort level went up with them. I'll grant you McNair's play, despite the OL, will improve while his comfort with Heap and Clayton grows and he leans less on Mason. But I
challenge the notion that Boller wouldn't also benefit from this.
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10-06-2006, 12:20 PM #91Regular 1st Stringer
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Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I'm judging McNair on what I've seen so far and it has absolutely nothing to do with what I've seen from Boller the past three years. If I'm discussing Boller I agree he's at best a marginally competant backup quarterback; however, that has nothing to do with what I've seen from McNair ~ which, frankly, so far has underwhelmed me. The two are not necessarily linked in my mind. I'm capable of judging each on their own merits ~ as I view them. I see no necessity to constantly compare them to each other. End results, yes, we are better off with McNair based on the current record that doesn't preclude me from seeing what I perceive as some glaring flaws in McNairs performance so far.
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10-06-2006, 12:39 PM #92
Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
Well here's another one of my theories that I hold near and dear, and it's a theroy I've developed over watching this team play over the years.
Under pressure, Boller is half the quarterback he is while not under pressure. By the same token, McNair is maybe 15% less effective under a rush than while not under a rush, based on his ability to get rid of the ball and complete the short pass. So in short, McNair is able to adapt more to pressure situations than Boller with his footwork and hot reading abilities.
You know where I stand on McNair's production by now, it's almost all attributable to a lack of comfort in a new offense. The running game and blocking would help, but not nearly as much as McNair simply getting used to the offense.
Is pass protection important? Yes. But really, McNair is effective even without it, by getting rid of the ball to his hots, usually Mason or Clayton, or by taking off and running straight up the gut of the defense under a blitz.
I truly believe that this offensive line can pass protect as poorly as it does now and we can still win the Super Bowl, if A) they can learn to RUN block better, and B) McNair starts to get used to the offense more.
In other words, I underrate the value of the pass protection with McNair as my quarterback, but find it absolutely a NECESSITY when Boller's back there. I don't think Boller is anywhere near McNair as a starting quarterback, as McNair's statistics will improve immensely with more reps and more practice.
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10-06-2006, 01:04 PM #93
Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
You know where I stand on McNair's production by now, it's almost all attributable to a lack of comfort in a new offense. The running game and blocking would help, but not nearly as much as McNair simply getting used to the offense.
The adjustment is more to the players he is now with. He will improve as his comfort level with Clayton and Heap grows, not to mention his comfort level of how his OL blocks (what direction a blocker will take a blitzer, etc).
A 15 yard out is still a 15 yard out, but how Mason will run it as opposed to Clayton or Drew Bennett is more important.
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10-06-2006, 01:16 PM #94Regular 1st Stringer
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Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
[QUOTE=FadeToBlack;12213]Well here's another one of my theories that I hold near and dear, and it's a theroy I've developed over watching this team play over the years.
Gee, this sounds suspiciously like another well known poster from an unnamed site.
Yes, I'm aware of your thoughts on this topic. I believe everyone is clearly on record and why. The reality is nobody's mind is about to be changed.. well, not entirely true, my thoughts are based on performance so far and may change should McNair's performance justify it. I don't think I'm as sold on the idea that his spotty performance is just unfamiliarity with the system as many of you are but I'm willing to be convinced. As far a a super bowl appearance, it's way to early for me to even consider that possibility.
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10-06-2006, 01:24 PM #95
Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
In re: the 15 yard out
What does change is the read progression. A WR may run the out pattern, but what players is he checking off to before and after? That's where play design does effect comfort. But i do agree there's an adjustment with players as well, as was evidenced in McNair's Favrean-like "punt" to the defense in the first half.
AZRaven, I respect the manner you defend your positions, which is why I like this site. We may bait each other from time to time, but it'll never get out of hand. I tend to give a free pass to proven MVPs, but maybe some people are more "what have you done for me lately?" We'll soon see.
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10-06-2006, 01:50 PM #96Regular 1st Stringer
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Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!
FTB, thanks for the respect. I hope you are right, that it won't get out of hand here but as with everything else I'm taking a "wait and see" approach because we don't know who all is going to show up over here.
I don't think it's as much "what have you done for me lately" with me as I just don't understand why he seems to be having such a difficult time adjusting to our ten play playbook. It just seems to me that if he can pull the rabbit out of the hat in the last three minutes he should be able to do it earlier in the game ~ but I have never professed being an "expert" on the game, I'm just a fan who loves my team and wants them to succeed. Yes, by our record it's obvious we are succeeding but I just have concerns about how it's happening and how well we will be able to sustain our success.
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