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  1. #91
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    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!



    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack View Post
    It's okay to criticize McNair as long as you acknowledge the fact McNair is a far superior player to Boller.
    I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I'm judging McNair on what I've seen so far and it has absolutely nothing to do with what I've seen from Boller the past three years. If I'm discussing Boller I agree he's at best a marginally competant backup quarterback; however, that has nothing to do with what I've seen from McNair ~ which, frankly, so far has underwhelmed me. The two are not necessarily linked in my mind. I'm capable of judging each on their own merits ~ as I view them. I see no necessity to constantly compare them to each other. End results, yes, we are better off with McNair based on the current record that doesn't preclude me from seeing what I perceive as some glaring flaws in McNairs performance so far.




  2. #92
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    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    Well here's another one of my theories that I hold near and dear, and it's a theroy I've developed over watching this team play over the years.

    Under pressure, Boller is half the quarterback he is while not under pressure. By the same token, McNair is maybe 15% less effective under a rush than while not under a rush, based on his ability to get rid of the ball and complete the short pass. So in short, McNair is able to adapt more to pressure situations than Boller with his footwork and hot reading abilities.

    You know where I stand on McNair's production by now, it's almost all attributable to a lack of comfort in a new offense. The running game and blocking would help, but not nearly as much as McNair simply getting used to the offense.

    Is pass protection important? Yes. But really, McNair is effective even without it, by getting rid of the ball to his hots, usually Mason or Clayton, or by taking off and running straight up the gut of the defense under a blitz.

    I truly believe that this offensive line can pass protect as poorly as it does now and we can still win the Super Bowl, if A) they can learn to RUN block better, and B) McNair starts to get used to the offense more.

    In other words, I underrate the value of the pass protection with McNair as my quarterback, but find it absolutely a NECESSITY when Boller's back there. I don't think Boller is anywhere near McNair as a starting quarterback, as McNair's statistics will improve immensely with more reps and more practice.




  3. #93
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    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    You know where I stand on McNair's production by now, it's almost all attributable to a lack of comfort in a new offense. The running game and blocking would help, but not nearly as much as McNair simply getting used to the offense.
    Eh, I don't think the offense is much of an issue. The plays one teams runs are pretty much the same as another's. What they call them and how often their philosophy dictates they use them changes from team to team, but the plays are pretty much the same.

    The adjustment is more to the players he is now with. He will improve as his comfort level with Clayton and Heap grows, not to mention his comfort level of how his OL blocks (what direction a blocker will take a blitzer, etc).

    A 15 yard out is still a 15 yard out, but how Mason will run it as opposed to Clayton or Drew Bennett is more important.




  4. #94
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    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    [QUOTE=FadeToBlack;12213]Well here's another one of my theories that I hold near and dear, and it's a theroy I've developed over watching this team play over the years.

    Gee, this sounds suspiciously like another well known poster from an unnamed site.

    Yes, I'm aware of your thoughts on this topic. I believe everyone is clearly on record and why. The reality is nobody's mind is about to be changed.. well, not entirely true, my thoughts are based on performance so far and may change should McNair's performance justify it. I don't think I'm as sold on the idea that his spotty performance is just unfamiliarity with the system as many of you are but I'm willing to be convinced. As far a a super bowl appearance, it's way to early for me to even consider that possibility.




  5. #95
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    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    In re: the 15 yard out

    What does change is the read progression. A WR may run the out pattern, but what players is he checking off to before and after? That's where play design does effect comfort. But i do agree there's an adjustment with players as well, as was evidenced in McNair's Favrean-like "punt" to the defense in the first half.

    AZRaven, I respect the manner you defend your positions, which is why I like this site. We may bait each other from time to time, but it'll never get out of hand. I tend to give a free pass to proven MVPs, but maybe some people are more "what have you done for me lately?" We'll soon see.




  6. #96
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    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    FTB, thanks for the respect. I hope you are right, that it won't get out of hand here but as with everything else I'm taking a "wait and see" approach because we don't know who all is going to show up over here.
    I don't think it's as much "what have you done for me lately" with me as I just don't understand why he seems to be having such a difficult time adjusting to our ten play playbook. It just seems to me that if he can pull the rabbit out of the hat in the last three minutes he should be able to do it earlier in the game ~ but I have never professed being an "expert" on the game, I'm just a fan who loves my team and wants them to succeed. Yes, by our record it's obvious we are succeeding but I just have concerns about how it's happening and how well we will be able to sustain our success.




  7. #97

    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    The Washington Post actually had an interesting story about McNair and how much more clutch he is than Boller or any other Ravens QB was.

    In particular, note the following:

    "Last season, the Ravens were 1-10 when trailing after three quarters, and four of those losses were decided by a touchdown or less."

    Steve McNair vs. Kyle Boller in the final 2:00
    Boller career rating: 54.8
    McNair career rating: 76.6
    McNair rating in 2006: 124.8

    Out of his 34 starts as a Raven, Kyle led a 4th Quarter comeback three times, once in the last 2 minutes. Obviously, Steve has done so in the last 2 weeks.

    I would never say Boller never led us on a comeback - obviously he did three times - but nor should anyone equate our chances in the situations in which we found ourselves the last two weeks under McNair with how we would have done in those situations with Boller.

    On another note, it was nice to see a pretty extensive Ravens story in the Post. You should check it out - the graphics are also pretty interesting. They have one that lists each Ravens QB and the comebacks he's led, and a list of the best 4th Quarter comebacks the Ravens have had along with a description of each one.




  8. #98
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    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    Interesting article rnh, but I think you could probably provide similar statistics for any of the other quarterbacks the Ravens have had, with the exception of Grbac (pre-Ravens). The guy is done as a starter in Baltimore, he is nearly done in any capacity in Baltimore and probably the NFL as a whole so I must say I can't see why it's necessary to keep beating the guy up. He wasn't the problem child that Leaf was or McNown or Marinovich orsome of the other junkyard quarterbacks who have been drafted into the NFL. Cripes, leave the kid alone and let him fade quietly into the sunset.




  9. #99

    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    It's okay to criticize McNair as long as you acknowledge the fact McNair is a far superior player to Boller.
    It's okay to criticize McNair as long as you acknowledge the fact McNair was a far superior player to Boller. But no more, based on 5 games, which should be more than ample to pick up the Ravens playbook.

    McNair used to be a to 10 NFL QB. He is now looking to be in a downward spiral, headed towards the "washed up" category. Monday night's QB performance was among the worst I've seen from a Ravens QB. A notch or two above Stoney Case vs. KC and Redman vs. St. Louis, but nothing I expected to see from a 33 year old vet former co-MVP.

    The Titans knew what they were doing when they let him go. They (and McNair's agent) saw Oz as a sucker waiting to be hosed.

    :nm:

    btw: Let's all hope that I have been wrong, and that McNair turns things around, quickly.





  10. #100

    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    A notch or two above Stoney Case
    Ouch!




  11. #101
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    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    Boller in Denver, 2005:
    Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate Sac Yds Att Yds Avg Lg TD
    39 23 59.0 251 1 2 65.2 2 0 2 3 1.5 2 0

    McNair, 2006:
    Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate Sac Yds Att Yds Avg Lg TD
    34 20 58.8 165 0 3 34.6 2 11 2 15 7.5 9 0

    Uh, Dude, according to the stats Boller out-played McNair in Denver. Higher completion percentage, higher rating, each with one lost fumble not in those stats. At some point somebody is going to need the throw in the towel for some of the posters here, they are just taking a beating. And in some cases by their own hand.

    Hey, McNair did outrush Boller in Denver, maybe we should use him as a RB! </sarcasm>




  12. #102

    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    At some point somebody is going to need the throw in the towel for some of the posters here, they are just taking a beating. And in some cases by their own hand.
    Now Greg.




  13. #103
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    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    You are correct, and I specifically did not target a specific poster when putting that up but man.

    You know, if you google shit up before posting it keeps you from saying stupid stuff. I know, I have posted some dumb stuff and learned to check my facts before throwing up nonsense.




  14. #104

    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    I was just teasing you Greg. Believe me, I am exerting so much will power right now it's not even funny. All for you my friend!! Hehhee




  15. #105
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    Re: Bitch & Moan All You Want!

    If you actually watched the game he looked like a bewildered high school kid trying to compete against full grown men that were NFL caliber football players.
    I watched the game and he had 3-4 complete bonehead plays. AND HE STILL HAD BETTER STATS AND STILL GAVE US A BETTER CHANCE TO WIN.

    I have exercised a lot of restraint in not using your name or use "you" in my posts to insure I was attacking your take and not you. I expect the same from you. Don't insuate other people aren't watching the games or are stupid because they don't come to the same conclusion as you.




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