Would we cut Suggs to keep Kruger?

**srobert96** · 02-10-2013, 10:05 AM

I don't think you can cut Suggs and sign Kruger. Not sure that Kruger can be an every down player. Suggs certainly sets the edge better. The defense was much better when Suggs returned and he was only about 60%. I think if Suggs is committed to getting in shape he will be a very good all around player again. Kruger took off when Suggs came back and Kruger could be used primarily in rush situations. At least that is how I seem to remember it.

**Miz89** · 02-10-2013, 12:29 PM

Not only is this a stupid idea and something that won't happen, but imagine the message it would send to players.

"Hey, push your body past the believed limits to help us win the Super Bowl, while being a leader and exemplifying what we want out of our players, and we will cut you in order to keep someone else who really only truly showed up because he knew he had to if he wanted to get paid!"

**psuasskicker** · 02-10-2013, 12:34 PM

Actually IMO the smartest move would be to let Suggs go and work on extending Ngata. He's an $11MM hit this year and $16MM each of the next two years. Extend him a few years, get those year numbers down a couple mil this and next year, and lock him up through age 33 or 34.

Right now, I'm sort of a firm believer in letting guys play through their prime, and then letting someone else sign them for what will likely be their last few years in the league. Suggs is 30, but he's played ten seasons in this league. I think we're all a little spoiled by Ray, who played 16 terrific years (this past season was a really bad year for him...he was injured most of it and ineffective when he played), but LBs/DLs simply don't play 15+ years in this league. Typically they play 10-12 good years, and then their play begins deteriorating quickly.

Personally I would prefer to allow Suggs to play out his current contract, suck it up and take the cap hits through his deal, and then let him sign with someone else. After two more years, he'll have a dozen years in the NFL, he'll be far more injury-prone and it's likely his level of play will decline significantly afterward. He may have one or two more good years afterward, but it's almost impossible to imagine a scenario in which he has another five good-to-great years left in him after his deal is up, so let him go somewhere else and be their cap drain in 2017 and beyond.

Ngata only has seven years in the NFL. He's probably got another five good ones in him, maybe seven if we're lucky. Re-sign him to a five or six year extension and then do the same with him...when the deal is up, let him go too (if he doesn't retire first). Extending him opens up some space to re-sign Kruger or Ellerbe without killing us too badly on cap space.

I really believe paying guys through their early 30s and continually replenishing talent with young players is how to stay competitive in this league. Being able to unemotionally allow a guy like Suggs to walk away from the team after 12 years of service is tough, but it's financially prudent to do. You don't want to do it with everyone...Ray Lewis or Ed Reed and guys like those are ones you want to squeeze every drop out of...you also don't allow franchise QBs to leave. But guys like Suggs and Ngata? If we want to stay competitive every year, we're gonna have to let guys like that go.

- C -

**Beau Petard** · 02-10-2013, 01:51 PM

psu--
Your post makes me recall the potential "carnage" that was discussed after the Ravens won their first SB. I think your comments are well taken. Not sure whether I recommend any specific contract disposition or protocol for Suggs, Kruger or, really, any of the Ravens we've seen - I rarely (ever?) post, "In Oz We Trust", but I think that's about as appropriate an approach this off-season as any.

**sailorsam** · 02-10-2013, 02:07 PM

I'm sure Suggs stays, and rightfully so
but some of these comments were probly made when Adalius left.
I think the Ravens need him as much for locker room/leadership as performance, but if he doesn't come back close to 100% methinks he's too expen$ive to keep for long.

**leachisabeast** · 02-10-2013, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

Actually IMO the smartest move would be to let Suggs go and work on extending Ngata. He's an $11MM hit this year and $16MM each of the next two years. Extend him a few years, get those year numbers down a couple mil this and next year, and lock him up through age 33 or 34.

Right now, I'm sort of a firm believer in letting guys play through their prime, and then letting someone else sign them for what will likely be their last few years in the league. Suggs is 30, but he's played ten seasons in this league. I think we're all a little spoiled by Ray, who played 16 terrific years (this past season was a really bad year for him...he was injured most of it and ineffective when he played), but LBs/DLs simply don't play 15+ years in this league. Typically they play 10-12 good years, and then their play begins deteriorating quickly.

Personally I would prefer to allow Suggs to play out his current contract, suck it up and take the cap hits through his deal, and then let him sign with someone else. After two more years, he'll have a dozen years in the NFL, he'll be far more injury-prone and it's likely his level of play will decline significantly afterward. He may have one or two more good years afterward, but it's almost impossible to imagine a scenario in which he has another five good-to-great years left in him after his deal is up, so let him go somewhere else and be their cap drain in 2017 and beyond.

Ngata only has seven years in the NFL. He's probably got another five good ones in him, maybe seven if we're lucky. Re-sign him to a five or six year extension and then do the same with him...when the deal is up, let him go too (if he doesn't retire first). Extending him opens up some space to re-sign Kruger or Ellerbe without killing us too badly on cap space.

I really believe paying guys through their early 30s and continually replenishing talent with young players is how to stay competitive in this league. Being able to unemotionally allow a guy like Suggs to walk away from the team after 12 years of service is tough, but it's financially prudent to do. You don't want to do it with everyone...Ray Lewis or Ed Reed and guys like those are ones you want to squeeze every drop out of...you also don't allow franchise QBs to leave. But guys like Suggs and Ngata? If we want to stay competitive every year, we're gonna have to let guys like that go.

- C -

But surely you can't just let him go this year? Just because of a down year caused by two significant injuries.

**BcRaven** · 02-10-2013, 03:50 PM

[QUOTE=Bazooka Joe;583264] ... I would miss Kruger but he can be replaced easily... [QUOTE]

This statement I do not agree with. Oh yes, I'd rather have Suggs than Kruger, and Upshaw may improve his pass rush skills, but let's not underestimate his value to the Ravens for the past two years. He was miscast, told to add weight, and non-productive as a DE. BUT as a pass rush OLB, he had 5.5 sacks in 2011, and 9 in 2012. Did you notice his sack of CK during the last series of S.F. downs? I don't think we will resign him, he will be too expensive, but do not say "he can be replaced easily" ... Bc

**Paintballguy** · 02-10-2013, 03:58 PM

According to Jason La Canfora, the Ravens are focused on signing Flacco and Ellerbe. Also, they are planning on letting Kruger and Williams walk.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2...cap-quandaries

The Super Bowl participants, the Ravens and 49ers are pretty flush against the cap. Baltimore is likely to let free agents Paul Kruger and Cary Williams walk, sources said, while focusing on new deals for quarterback Joe Flacco, linebacker Dannell Ellerbe and safety Ed Reed (signing all three, however, may not be possible). The 49ers could free up $8.5 million in cap space by cutting back-up quarterback Alex Smith free, and are well positioned with most of their young core already signed long-term.

**BcRaven** · 02-10-2013, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

According to Jason La Canfora, the Ravens are focused on signing Flacco and Ellerbe. Also, they are planning on letting Kruger and Williams walk.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2...cap-quandaries

The Super Bowl participants, the Ravens and 49ers are pretty flush against the cap. Baltimore is likely to let free agents Paul Kruger and Cary Williams walk, sources said, while focusing on new deals for quarterback Joe Flacco, linebacker Dannell Ellerbe and safety Ed Reed (signing all three, however, may not be possible). The 49ers could free up $8.5 million in cap space by cutting back-up quarterback Alex Smith free, and are well positioned with most of their young core already signed long-term.

I think Cary Williams, who turned down a 3 year $15 mil. conract from the Ravens before the 2012 season, gambled and won. He had a solid season, got a Super Bowl ring, and is now looking for the highest bidder. There will be one, not the Ravens, and they will be disappointed in a year or two, as has happened with most Ravens FAs who have left Baltimore... Bc

**leachisabeast** · 02-10-2013, 04:08 PM

Nice to hear that they want Reed back. Would fill a massive hole in the offseason, and would allow us to address purely the Dline and LB.

**Paintballguy** · 02-10-2013, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

I think Cary Williams, who turned down a 3 year $15 mil. conract from the Ravens before the 2012 season, gambled and won. He had a solid season, got a Super Bowl ring, and is now looking for the highest bidder. There will be one, not the Ravens, and they will be disappointed in a year or two, as has happened with most Ravens FAs who have left Baltimore... Bc

I agree. Some team is going to overpay for Williams and be disappointed. Cary has been great this year, but I don't think he's worth the money he is going to get.

**jonboy79** · 02-10-2013, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

I agree. Some team is going to overpay for Williams and be disappointed. Cary has been great this year, but I don't think he's worth the money he is going to get.

He's a better then league average starter, and IMO will be paid as such(5yr $40m or so???). IF they are expecting a better player then that, they will be disappointed, but if they are honest with themselves, they will get what they want.

I think he was unfairly hated around here early on as CB is the EASIEST position to think your own guys are worse then they are, particularly in today's NFL. CB's are on the field to get beat, and even the best get beat a few times a game.