Which was the best, the 2000 or the 2012 SB run?

[Uli2001]

I waited four days to post this so there is a bit of a distance from Sunday's game. But I thought this after the game, and still think today: even though I never thought the 2000 SB run could be matched by the Ravens, this one did.

I also never thought the Ravens would have once again as charismatic a coach as Billick, but they do, in John Harbaugh.

I believed that the Ravens would go on to win other SB titles, that they would be nice, but ho-hum compared to the enthusiasm and joy of winning your first SB title. This one was not. I also thought that no postseason run could be as improbable as the 2000 run, but I was wrong in that aspect. This run was more improbable. It's a fact.

[LukeDaniel]

2012 was better and more exciting.

Entering the 2001 playoffs, I legitimately expected us to win the Super Bowl. You could see how we were just physically dominating our opponents. I expected us to beat Denver handily, beat TEN narrowly, beat Oakland by about 7, and beat the Giants by 10+. All of my expectations were met. That was great, but a little anti-climactic.

Entering the 2013 playoffs, I expected us to dominate Indy, but then lose by about 10 to Denver. Once we beat Denver, I thought we COULD beat New England, but considered it less than a 50% probability. I considered the Super Bowl a coin flip. The fact that we won so many games where we were underdogs definitely made it sweeter than 2000.

From an excitement standpoint, in 2001, it was clear that we would win 3 out of 4 of our games by about 5 minutes into the 3rd quarter. There was only one game that was even close. In reality, the other 3 were non-competitive snoozers. Part of that was because our defense was so good. Once we got a 7 point lead, you knew the game was over. That 2nd half of the Titans game was memorable and the Mitchell/Lewis TDs were legendary, but that was the only moment all postseason where we were on the edge of our seats.

In 2013, the Denver game produced so many. We were 25 seconds and 70 yards away from losing that game. Then we were blessed with one of the two greatest plays in NFL history. That alone makes 2013 better. Yet, we still had to play through another overtime, featuring a 3rd-and-13 conversion from our own 5 yard line, a Manning INT, and a long FG by Tucker.

Then we went into New England down by 6 at halftime against a team that had won 61 straight at home when leading at the half. That game wound up being a 15 point victory, but it was a 1 point game heading into the 4th quarter if memory serves me correctly.

Then in the Super Bowl, we had to dodge four straight plays inside our own 7 yard line, where a TD by San Francisco concludes the biggest comeback in Super Bowl history.

In 2001, there were only two moments where I legitimately think that, had we not made a certain play, we might have not won the Super Bowl. The first was Sharper's amazing horsecollar tackle on McNair (which was totally legal back then) that forced 4th down right around the 20 yard line. The next was the very next play where Washington blocked Del Greco, Mitchell caught the ball, and the rest was history. Without those two plays, given how awful our offense was, we may very well have not even reached the AFC Title game. Expecting our offense to score another 3 points against that stout Tenn defense was asking a lot. Likewise, once we got that 7 point lead, given the nature of that game, you had to feel about 90% certain that Tenn wasn't cracking the end zone again. That's why Lewis' INT really wasn't as exciting a play IMO as, for instance, Ellerbe's INT against Brady. I think the worry was greater that Brady was going to score 15 points in 10 minutes against our 2013 defense than it was that McNair could score 7 points in 12 minutes against that 2000 defense.

In 2013, there are literally like 50 plays (and I'm not exaggerating) that might have cost us a Super Bowl crown if not made.

- Jacoby making the 70 yard catch
-Torrey making that acrobatic catch right before halftime in Denver
-Ellerbe's INT of Brady
- Upshaw's forced fumble on LaMichael James
- Jones 56 yard Super Bowl TD
- Jones KO return
- Ellerbe tracking down Gore from behind to set up the eventually unsuccessful 1st-and-goal from the 7. Without that tackle, we might not have won.
- Graham's INT of Manning
-Tucker's FG
- Jimmy Smith breaking up the 3rd down pass along the goal line, setting up 4th and goal from the 5, versus 4th and goal from the 2 (where Kaepernick now has running options)
- Jimmy Smith making a great special teams tackle on Holiday setting up the field position that allowed the Manning INT to take place in Denver territory
- Yanda pushing Rice for a first down to help set up the Tucker FG
- Oher holding his block on Von Miller for just long enough to let Flacco unload the pass to Jacoby.

I'm just scratching the surface


Also, I think the 2013 team was better because I prefer offense to defense :)

[Ravenboy2003]

Really hard to make comparisons.

This team was exciting because we had a franchise QB and a ton of offensive weapons. We had none of that in 2000/2001.

That team had such an incredible defense that you knew the minute our offense got us 10-13 points, we were going to win.

I'd give the slight edge to the 2012/2013 team, but man that defense was a thing of beauty in 2000/2001.

[ballhawk]

I don't know man. There is something to be said for the first. It legitamized the entire franchise, including the move from Cleveland and everything.

Of course we didn't go through two of the greatest QB's of all time in 2000.

The 2000 team was more dominant but the 2012 team was more exciting.

[LukeDaniel]

I don't know man. There is something to be said for the first. It legitamized the entire franchise, including the move from Cleveland and everything.

Good point.

Let me play devil's advocate, though, that we really hadn't agonized enough prior to that 2000 season for it to carry the same meaning as this past one. Let's face it, we were a pretty bad team from 96-98, .500 in 99, and then...wham...we're in the Super Bowl.

This 2012/13 team was the culmination of having four other seasons in 06, 08, 10, and 11 where we were good enough to be World Champions but fell agonizingly short. I think that makes our success in 2012, which came out of nowhere, all the more sweet. We had kept getting knocked down, having our emotions crushed, making this win all the sweeter.

[ballhawk]

That's a good point too. This SB was definitely the culmination of something that they have been building for a long time.

Its super awesome to be one of only 12 fanbases that have a choice between favorite SB wins.

[akashicrecorder]

I wasn't paying close enough attention to our run in 2001 to make a fair assessment probably. But I asked my dad which run was getting people more excited in Baltimore. He said he didn't think it'd ever get bigger than our postseason in 2001 but that this postseason, you could feel Baltimore was even more excited now than it had been for that one.

This postseason was special. How many teams have beaten Manning AND Brady in one season, let alone back to back, in the postseason? Just us and the Jets, I'm guessing? And the Jets didn't seal the deal.

The only things that might be the same then and now is the hate. That year and this year, Ray was the focus of attention and people love to hate him. Analysts seemed to be creaming their pants when they picked against us.

[Real Fan Dan]

I remember Mr. Eisenberg wrote an article just after SB XXXV that said there will never be anything quite like your first championship and that we should pay attention and relish every second of it. I surely did, and i still believe he was right.

Our Team was stolen from us. We endured 12 years with our hearts ripped out and the disrespect of Jack Kent Cooke and his henchman Tagliabue. We got the Ravens in spite of those dicks and endured three terrible losing seasons and what seemed like the joyful disdain of the entire league. There was no light at the end of the tunnel unless maybe it was an oncoming train. Then suddenly there was that electrifying home game against the Jaguars. The red hot spirit of Baltimore Fandom was rekindled and the legend of the greatest Defense in NFL history unfolded. The first Baltimore Championship in 30 freaking years redeemed my home town and unified the population like never before.The utter joy in my heart was indescribable.

This year too was unbelievably legendary. I will never forget the adversity this TEAM overcame, the power and leadership of Ray Lewis, and the faith and humility that the players and coaches showed to their Lord and Saviour and to each other. I'll be celebrating all the way through next season, but the first Championship will always be my favorite.

[HoustonRaven]

Depends on your definition of the "best".

I say 2001 because NOBODY picked us to even make the playoffs, let alone win the whole damn thing. There were plenty of analysts this season that were saying we were contenders before and during the season. In 2000 - 2001, the doubt by all the "haters" was 10 times worse than it was for this run.

That defense was a site to see. Not in my lifetime had I ever witnessed such a dominate squad. They made watching the defense then as fun as it is watching the explosive offenses of today.

Now in terms of the actual Super Bowl itself, I say this recent one was more exciting from a pure football fan perspective.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I heard some people talking about it on the radio and they basically described my feeling.

This one was a LOT better IMHO.

I love that 2000 team as I don't think we'll ever see the level of swag and one side of the ball dominating like that again...watching that defense shut offenses down and then hearing the opposing offense try and claim that we weren't that good after getting their ass kicked was incredibly satisfying.

But that team was full of "hired guns", guys that came from other cities/teams and spent just a few years here...Goose, Sam Adams, Rod, Sharpe, Dilfer, a lot of our best players were here for just a blink of an eye. That team never had any playoff experience so they didn't really have to go through much adversity on the field prior to 2000.

This one seems a lot more personal, almost all of our best players have spent their careers here...Joe, Ray Rice, Yanda, Torrey, Pitta, Suggs, Reed, Ray Lewis, Ellerbe, Webb, Ngata...they all know nothing but the Baltimore Ravens and we only know them as homegrown Ravens. The only top player who wasn't from here is Boldin, and I don't think there was ever a player more meant to be a Raven than him.

So we have all this homegrown talent, all these pro bowl level guys who have suffered multiple...failures to be frank...in the playoffs for each of the last 4 years, and every loss except one was excruciating, and heartbreaking losses where when we needed someone to make a play, none of our players could. They all went through the frustrations and disappointments...the questions on if we'd ever make it to and win the big show with our guys. We worried about wasting the prime of 2 first ballot HOF's in Ray and Reed...wondered if Ray would ever get that second one he was holding on for and if Ed would ever get one that frankly, I and I believe most of us felt he deserved.

The 2000 team never went through any of that. It was a perfect storm...a category 5 hurricane that kind of came out of nowhere, destroyed everything in it's path, and then was torn apart shortly after it's damage was done.

Also, don't forget that while we had a very good, passionate fanbase in 2000, it in noway compares to what we have now...that outpouring of love and appreciation on Tuesday confirmed that.

[Uli2001]

Wow, lots and lots of good points in this thread.

It's hard to reply to all, but I agree with ballhawk: regardless of each fan's preference, just the fact we can have this debate is special.

Adversity was also part of the 2000 run: the 5-week TD-less stretch, and being even more of an underdog while winning three consecutive away games. But what makes the 2012 more improbable and amazing is the quality of the opposition. Even though I won't go so far as LukeDaniel and call the Oak and NY Giant games back in 2001 boring (no one gave the Ravens a chance in those games, just as this year), those were not the same caliber of opponents that NE and SF were this year. Neither from a football point of view nor from a tradition/historical point of view.

[GOTA]

The 2000 team would demolish the 2012 team. That was the greatest defense of all time. This team was balanced but did not have a unit a dominant as that defense.