Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 44 of 44
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Land of Verdite
    Posts
    13,340
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?



    Mistake #1: Neglecting to acknowledge the vast difference in what defenses were able to do to an offense twenty years ago, compared to now.

    Mistake #2: Understating the fact that Montana did it in three games

    Mistake #3: Overlooking damn near 80% completion. Look at how the West Coast offense has evolved since then. Look at how many teams began running variations of it and how many do today. None of those QBs. I repeat, none of those QBs have come close to 80% completion in an entire Super Bowl run, even with the rules more heavily favoring the offense, compared to back then.

    Mistake #4: Overvaluing the defenses Joe faced. The Colts defense sucked. It was pass rush or bust. Denver's defense was all pass rush and nothing else. That had been the case the entire season. They got away with it, because Peyton put pressure on opposing offenses to keep up with him. Which is exactly what Montana did on another level, once upon a time. New England's defense sucked.

    This 'sounds' like the classic case of someone unable to put together the true picture with their eyes, because they didn't see it. Only to try and justify their misguided view with statistics (A baseball approach).

    There were certain players that you just had to see, to fully appreciate how special they were. Johnny Unitas. Jim Brown. Joe Montana is one of those guys.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southern PA
    Posts
    5,056
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Mistake #1: Neglecting to acknowledge the vast difference in what defenses were able to do to an offense twenty years ago, compared to now.

    Mistake #2: Understating the fact that Montana did it in three games

    Mistake #3: Overlooking damn near 80% completion. Look at how the West Coast offense has evolved since then. Look at how many teams began running variations of it and how many do today. None of those QBs. I repeat, none of those QBs have come close to 80% completion in an entire Super Bowl run, even with the rules more heavily favoring the offense, compared to back then.

    Mistake #4: Overvaluing the defenses Joe faced. The Colts defense sucked. It was pass rush or bust. Denver's defense was all pass rush and nothing else. That had been the case the entire season. They got away with it, because Peyton put pressure on opposing offenses to keep up with him. Which is exactly what Montana did on another level, once upon a time. New England's defense sucked.

    This 'sounds' like the classic case of someone unable to put together the true picture with their eyes, because they didn't see it. Only to try and justify their misguidEd view with statistics (A baseball approach).

    There were certain players that you just had to see, to fully appreciate how special they were. Johnny Unitas. Jim Brown. Joe Montana is one of those guys.
    Couldn't agree more! I love me some Joe Flacco but to compare him to Montana in '89 is just crazy IMO. Montana was like playing Madden and he made it look easy...




  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Land of Verdite
    Posts
    13,340
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    Couldn't agree more! I love me some Joe Flacco but to compare him to Montana in '89 is just crazy IMO. Montana was like playing Madden and he made it look easy...
    The reality that Joe Flacco is even in the vicinity is an honor in itself. Some are just getting greedy.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,545
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    The reality that Joe Flacco is even in the vicinity is an honor in itself. Some are just getting greedy.
    Look, I saw them both play. I'm 46 years old, k?

    All I am saying is that there are arguments to be made for Flacco's case. Opinions may vary. But for those belittling others for having those opinions, I think that is unnecessary.

    I'm just happy that he can be mentioned in the same breath too, and that we have another ring.




  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The Land of Verdite
    Posts
    13,340
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    Look, I saw them both play. I'm 46 years old, k?

    All I am saying is that there are arguments to be made for Flacco's case. Opinions may vary. But for those belittling others for having those opinions, I think that is unnecessary.

    I'm just happy that he can be mentioned in the same breath too, and that we have another ring.
    The OP is making the argument using stats to try and justify his case, without accounting for the intangible variables of that era, (likely because he didn't get to see Montana play, no fault of his) such as the level of difficulty for offenses back then. I highly doubt that is the argument that you would agree, is to be made here.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  6. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,533
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    In his first 2 games in the playoffs (home vs. MIN and on the road at CHI), Montana destroyed the top 2 defenses in the league...not diminishing what Flacco had to face in Denver and vs. San Francisco...but Montana didn't have a walk in the park, either.
    Montana did it with the no. 1 offense in the league in '89. The Niners were first in offense and fourth in defense. The '89 Niners are one of the best NFL teams in the history of the league.

    It's like saying Montana was more impressive for winning Daytona driving the best car in the field in '89 than Flacco doing it in 2012 driving a stock Ford Mustang.




  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Boston MA
    Posts
    795

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Montana did it with the no. 1 offense in the league in '89. The Niners were first in offense and fourth in defense. The '89 Niners are one of the best NFL teams in the history of the league.

    It's like saying Montana was more impressive for winning Daytona driving the best car in the field in '89 than Flacco doing it in 2012 driving a stock Ford Mustang.
    Montana had something to do with the fact that the offense was #1. I don't understand trying to say somebody is less impressive because he was more dominant. It wpould be like in the early days of Mike Tyson saying that he wasn't impressive because none of his opponents made it out of the first round.




  8. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Malmö, Sweden
    Posts
    241

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    It takes two to complete a pass (even more if you take pass protection into account). That is why it matters who the players around you are. I didn't watch Montana. But that holds true no matter what.
    Hrafn




  9. #39

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    In his first 2 games in the playoffs (home vs. MIN and on the road at CHI), Montana destroyed the top 2 defenses in the league...not diminishing what Flacco had to face in Denver and vs. San Francisco...but Montana didn't have a walk in the park, either.
    What are you talking about? He played Minn and Rams at home...




  10. #40

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider Webb View Post
    What are you talking about? He played Minn and Rams at home...
    Damn...your right...I was looking at the prior year...when they beat Cincinnati in the SB...he had an impressive run there, too. 8 TDs, 1 INT, 100+ QBR for all 3 games.

    You are right:
    Home vs. MIN (6th in pts. / 1st in yards)
    Home vs. LA (17th in pts. / 21st in yards)
    Neutral vs DEN (1st in pts. / 3rd in yards)

    My bad....I actually think I am more impressed by the prior playoff run when he played the top 2 Ds.




  11. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Eastern Shore
    Posts
    1,976

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    1989 49ers in playoffs faced Vikings, Wade Wilson starting qb; 1989 Rams, Jim Everitt starting qb; 1989 Broncos, John Elway starting qb

    2012 Ravens faced Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Colin Kupernick.

    I'd say the Ravens definitely had the harder path.

    But this whole debate is like arguing between Megan Fox and Beyonce; win/win.
    Baltimore Ravens, 2012 NFL Champions!




  12. #42

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Regarding the matter of the 1989 49ers defense, this thought came to mind:

    Imagine 2012 Joe Flacco (along maybe with Bouldin and/or Jones) with the 2000 Ravens and their defense.

    That would undoubtedly be a team for all ages.




  13. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,533
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Quote Originally Posted by somedumbguy View Post
    Montana had something to do with the fact that the offense was #1. I don't understand trying to say somebody is less impressive because he was more dominant. It wpould be like in the early days of Mike Tyson saying that he wasn't impressive because none of his opponents made it out of the first round.
    Sure, he had something to do with. He was also surrounded with great talent, including the guy many think was the best player in the history of the game (I'd put Otto Graham or Jim Brown over Rice, but that's me).

    I love Boldin. He's a great wide-out and perfect for this team, but he's no Jerry Rice. I don't think he's better than John Taylor. Pitta is a good young tight end. He's no Brent Jones. Rice is arguably as good or better than Craig (and similar in what they provide), but he was also arguably not much of a factor in the playoffs this year. Vonta Leach is another Raven player I love, but he's not the fullback Tom Rathman was, especially as an offensive weapon. Rathman had 305 yards on 79 rushes in '89, and 616 yards receiving on 73 catches. He was also a damn good lead blocker. The Niners that year had a dominating offensive line. The team was 14-2, the best record in football that year.

    I was in error upthread. The Niners were 3rd in defense that year, not 4th. The Broncos (who they whumped in the SB) were the no. 1 defense.

    I still think the Browns would have given a better game than the Broncos did in the SB that year. The Browns had good, all-around teams in the '80s under Schottenheimer, and shit for luck.




  14. #44

    Re: The two greatest post-seasons in NFL history: Joe Montana (1989) vs Joe Flacco (2012). Which was better?

    Montana and the 9'ers were the dominate team in the NFL - they could score and defend at will.

    Joe Flacco did not have a dominate defense to give him short fields to score from - additionally, the 9'ers weren't in cliffhanger games that playoff year that forced Montana to get the job done.

    When a team has a shut down defense, even Trent Dilfer can win a SB. Flacco had to produce this year since the Ravens defense was far from shut down.

    Montana is legend - Flacco is building a body of work that can become legend.




Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland