Who to keep

**LukeDaniel** · 02-06-2013, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

There is room, and Michael Williams is the exact player I hope we target, I jsut question the value of Dickson in that scenario. IMO, he would then NEVER see the field unless Pitta is hurt. $1.3m for a 3rd string TE that can't catch or block but runs like the wind is a LOT.

I'm sorry, that's just not true. $1.3 million is peanuts in the grand scheme of a salary cap. We might not have a Lombardi Trophy right now if not for those catches from Dickson that set up our 2nd score. Dickson is a bad blocker and has questionable hands, but he is a matchup nightmare. LBs and Safeties alike can't keep up with him.

**chicagoravensfan** · 02-06-2013, 01:00 PM

No one though enough of Dickson to take him before the 3rd round in the year he was drafted. After 3 underwhelming seasons, why would that change? Original round tender for Dickson sounds perfect.

**bmorecareful** · 02-06-2013, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

I'm sorry, that's just not true. $1.3 million is peanuts in the grand scheme of a salary cap. We might not have a Lombardi Trophy right now if not for those catches from Dickson that set up our 2nd score. Dickson is a bad blocker and has questionable hands, but he is a matchup nightmare. LBs and Safeties alike can't keep up with him.

We also might not have the Lombardi if not for Chris Johnson's strip of Mike Wallace @PIT. Does that make him irreplaceable next year? Surely not!

I agree that Dickson is a valuable player. As you say, he is a "matchup" TE, the kind of guy who plays the majority of his snaps split out wide, in the slot, or out of the backfield as an H-Back. The problem is, we already have a player in Pitta who does literally everything Dickson does, only significantly better. Dickson was once thought of a possible seam-stretching vertical threat, but he hasn't shown that thus far and he wasn't used in such a role at Oregon either. This means Dickson has no role on this team other than as Pitta's strict backup and relief guy.

The best case scenario for Dickson by far is to trade him. There are plenty of other teams who could use a "move" TE that has proven more than a raw rookie, Chip Kelly's Eagles being perhaps the best fit. If I were Ozzie I'd open bidding asking for a 4th but would settle for any pick up to a 6th. I think there's a decent chance that could happen, but if it doesn't, there's no reason to cut him for minimal savings.

**jonboy79** · 02-06-2013, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

I'm sorry, that's just not true. $1.3 million is peanuts in the grand scheme of a salary cap. We might not have a Lombardi Trophy right now if not for those catches from Dickson that set up our 2nd score. Dickson is a bad blocker and has questionable hands, but he is a matchup nightmare. LBs and Safeties alike can't keep up with him.

Disagreed. Sorry, it's opinion. $1.3m is a lot of money for a TE that can't catch or block a lick. His speed is basically inconsequential since he can't catch. I really, player for player, would rather have Hoomanawanui or any number of blockign first TE's whom all make around a half Million less and would contribute more for this team.

And make no mistake, If I thought it was reasonabe that we could get ANYTHING for him in trade, I understand tagging him... but I doubt he even garners a 6th. I'm not sure there is any team out there(besides possibly Philly) sayign they'd rather have him then a rookie fo the same pick range(5th, 6th whattever).

Certainly no one would pony up a third.

**LukeDaniel** · 02-06-2013, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

$1.3m is a lot of money for a TE that can't catch or block a lick. .

He certainly caught fine on Sunday, didn't he? He caught well enough to catch 54 balls last year, including two of the nicest catches of our season in the opener against PIT and an extremely tough catch for a TD in Seattle.

I'm not saying he has good hands. It's not like this is Ricky Dudley reincarnated, though. He's not nearly as bad as you are making him out to be. As a blocker, he's piss poor. No argument. He has value as a receiver for sure.

What would trading him for a 6th rounder accomplish? That 6th rounder might not even make the team. We already have 11 picks. By my roster breakdown, there is only room for 6-8 rookies on our 2013 roster, so an extra sixth rounder, aside from being trade bait to move up in the draft, really does nothing for us. We are going to have at least 3-4 of our draft picks that will either be cut or IRed next year.

If we go into 2013 with Pitta, low-cost veteran (Bajema clone), and a guy like Michael Williams, then we face a tough position if Pitta would get hurt. We are paying Flacco probably around $115 million over 6 years. It wouldn't make sense to pay all that money to keep him and then trade away one of his weapons for next to nothing. Keep in mind that cutting/trading Dickson ($1.32 2013 cap #) for a veteran-minimum type free agent (roughly $850) really only saves us $450k. For that amount, why not keep the higher-upside player?

Every offseason we have these conversations (not you specifically, but in general). We talk about how certain players are easily expendable, and by week 11 of the following season, that supposedly expendable player now holds a tangible value and we are darned glad that we kept them.

**Boulderraven** · 02-06-2013, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

They weren't "tough" last year, as they muddled their way to some really bad losses. This team will be without at least 8, and possibly as much as 13 starters from last year's team. What makes you think they will be "tough" when they displayed serious depth issues last year, only to lose a good chunk of their capable players?

This is a team that had Josh Victorian as their nickleback for a good chunk of the stretch run of the season. Yes, the same Josh Victorian who was like the #9 cornerback in training camp for us last year.

You think the STEELERS might be the WORST team in the NFL!!!! They were number 1 in total defense, missed the playoffs by a last second FG. Lost HALF thier oline to injury, lost IKE TAYLOR thier best CB to a broken foot and still went 8-8. Not to mention Big Ben who was never the same after injury. Steeler have fallen into a pattern where they have a down season every 3 years like you could follow on a watch. You are being naive, they will lose some guys like all teams. But replace them, only reason Victorian was playing was both CB's were hurt. If you want to count out the Steelers as the worst team, go ahead. I have been around way to long and know better. As long as the defense has LeBeau and they have Big Ben watch out.

**Boulderraven** · 02-06-2013, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Disagreed. Sorry, it's opinion. $1.3m is a lot of money for a TE that can't catch or block a lick. His speed is basically inconsequential since he can't catch. I really, player for player, would rather have Hoomanawanui or any number of blockign first TE's whom all make around a half Million less and would contribute more for this team.

And make no mistake, If I thought it was reasonabe that we could get ANYTHING for him in trade, I understand tagging him... but I doubt he even garners a 6th. I'm not sure there is any team out there(besides possibly Philly) sayign they'd rather have him then a rookie fo the same pick range(5th, 6th whattever).

Certainly no one would pony up a third.

NO ONE WILL GIVE UP A THIRD FOR THIS GUY, EVEN THOUGH HE MADE 2 CATCHES IN THE SB. Dickson is a trade candidate IMO, to maybe the Eagles with Kelley and his system. If Dickson is a Raven next year alot will depend on whom we draft.

**jonboy79** · 02-06-2013, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

He certainly caught fine on Sunday, didn't he? He caught well enough to catch 54 balls last year, including two of the nicest catches of our season in the opener against PIT and an extremely tough catch for a TD in Seattle.

I'm not saying he has good hands. It's not like this is Ricky Dudley reincarnated, though. He's not nearly as bad as you are making him out to be. As a blocker, he's piss poor. No argument. He has value as a receiver for sure.

What would trading him for a 6th rounder accomplish? That 6th rounder might not even make the team. We already have 11 picks. By my roster breakdown, there is only room for 6-8 rookies on our 2013 roster, so an extra sixth rounder, aside from being trade bait to move up in the draft, really does nothing for us. We are going to have at least 3-4 of our draft picks that will either be cut or IRed next year.

If we go into 2013 with Pitta, low-cost veteran (Bajema clone), and a guy like Michael Williams, then we face a tough position if Pitta would get hurt. We are paying Flacco probably around $115 million over 6 years. It wouldn't make sense to pay all that money to keep him and then trade away one of his weapons for next to nothing. Keep in mind that cutting/trading Dickson ($1.32 2013 cap #) for a veteran-minimum type free agent (roughly $850) really only saves us $450k. For that amount, why not keep the higher-upside player?

Every offseason we have these conversations (not you specifically, but in general). We talk about how certain players are easily expendable, and by week 11 of the following season, that supposedly expendable player now holds a tangible value and we are darned glad that we kept them.

Trade bait, as you allude to. I think we should be CONSTSANTLY moving around the board in this draft. If we could turn 11 picks into 6 good ones I'd be super happy. with 4 untradeables, which are actually very near our natural picks, IF we could use all oter natural picks to move up in the first and second(or first and third) we should do so, IMO.

What if we get Williams AND an H-back type guy in the draft and then we don't have a Bajema guy or Dickson. So now $2.25m is being replaced by around $1m. Now we are talking real savings over a million dollars, and IMO, more versatility and upside.

I don't think of Dickson as a high upside player, and that is where we differ. He's simply a big slow WR with questionable hands. I'd trade him straight up for a young blocking TE with upside(such as my oft -mentioned favorite Hoomanawanui).

**The Excellector** · 02-06-2013, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I actually think we should be taking the Bengals seriously, they will be more threatening than the Steelers IMO.

Here we go with this again.

**The Excellector** · 02-06-2013, 01:54 PM

Dickson can't block for shit. How is he the most talent TE on the team? Because's he's fast and bails when he hears footsteps?

I'd take a sixth for him personally.

With the way Joe can throw the ball, the need for a blocker with good hands is more important than what Dickson is bringing to the table.

**Ravenswintitle** · 02-06-2013, 01:57 PM

Dickson can't block, that's why Bajema got playing time. We need a true blocking TE that can occasionally catch passes

**jonboy79** · 02-06-2013, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Dickson can't block, that's why Bajema got playing time. We need a true blocking TE that can occasionally catch passes

OK so I'm not alone here....

Obviously everyone sees the need for a blocking TE, even those who think we should keep dickson. But I think a guy klike WEillaims from Alabama puts Dickson in street clothes on sundays.