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  1. #61

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"



    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrosin View Post
    TTier 4: The phenoms - Colin Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton

    The next breed of NFL quarterback, all of these guys are in their first two years, all of them are cheap on their current contracts (some extremely so), and all of them have high hopes. But you can't put them above the existing champs because they need to prove it for more than just one or two seasons. If you're starting an NFL team from scratch, you could make a case for any of these guys over Flacco, especially if you're getting them at their current prices. But none of them have rings now.

    Tier 5: Still young, still high potential - Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford

    These two are the closest comparables to Flacco, and this is the tier I'd put Flacco in if he didn't just win a title. They have greater statistical prowess in the regular season but their postseason record in both cases is abysmal, and you can argue they're doing it with better receivers (Julio/Roddy/Gonzo, Megatron and Random Guy Opposite Megatron). I wouldn't argue with anyone who believes that these guys can lead championship teams.
    id have to argue that the tier 4 and 5 should be switched. The younger guys may have potential to be better, but theyre still unproven vs the vets that still have potential and have proven it. A couple of those Phenoms we wont be talking about 5 years from now as being full of potential (and will fall into tier 7, 8, or even 9 by your system), while those vets are still talked about as being on the verge of elite. I dont think you can reward them for being rookies and their small sample sizes over guys that have proven much more.

    Side note im surprised how many people are crowning Flacco the best in the league right now. I know were all riding high right now, but I dont understand why he has to be average or elite and nothing in between. I think he has the tools to be elite and looks to be on the way but with only 5-6 games to back him up I dont know how you can just jump him ahead of everyone. halfway through next year im sure a lot of peoples lists will change again. I think tempering expectations is in order for some.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 02-06-2013 at 10:18 AM.
    -JAB




  2. #62
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    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    id have to argue that the tier 4 and 5 should be switched. The younger guys may have potential to be better, but theyre still unproven vs the vets that still have potential and have proven it. A couple of those Phenoms we wont be talking about 5 years from now as being full of potential (and will fall into tier 7, 8, or even 9 by your system), while those vets are still talked about as being on the verge of elite. I dont think you can reward them for being rookies and their small sample sizes over guys that have proven much more.

    Side note im surprised how many people are crowning Flacco the best in the league right now. I know were all riding high right now, but I dont understand why he has to be average or elite and nothing in between. I think he has the tools to be elite and looks to be on the way but with only 5-6 games to back him up I dont know how you can just jump him ahead of everyone. halfway through next year im sure a lot of peoples lists will change again. I think tempering expectations is in order for some.
    The deciding factor for me between these two tiers was mostly contract size. Matt Ryan was the #3 overall pick, Stafford the #1 overall. They're both more expensive than even the recent #1-2 picks (Luck, Griffin, Newton). And they are VASTLY more expensive than Wilson and Kaepernick, both of whom have contracts that can't even be touched for a raise for 1-2 more years thanks to the new CBA. Matt Ryan has one more year and then he's going to be asking for whatever Joe gets this offseason. Stafford is going to want close to that amount.

    Truthfully, both Ryan and Stafford are young enough to merge these two tiers into one.




  3. #63
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    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Petard View Post
    Gabrosin--
    You have done a wonderful thing, IMO, by starting your post with,

    "The tiered approach is the best way to evaluate QBs, because you can nitpick between them based on the standards you are choosing. Do you want the most accomplished QB, or the one that gives you the best chance to win this year, or the one you would build a franchise around if you were drafting a team from scratch? Joe is not at the top of any of those questions, but if you're looking for a confluence of the three he can be surprisingly high up there."

    This type of preamble should be mandatory in the future on any thread that purports to discuss who is the "best" QB. A similarly constructed paragraph should also be requried for any threads on "power rankings; "best or #1" receiver; "best" RB; "best" Head Coach (or OC, or DC); etc. I'd also demand it when "so and so is 'better' than this guy or that" discussions.

    Merci beaucoup!
    Thanks for the compliment. I think the disclaimer there is valid for all positions but especially valid for QBs and coaches. Those are the two groups that get evaluated more by winning and championships than by stats.

    The disclaimer for RBs/WRs/defenders is more about who these guys have around them (a valid disclaimer for QBs as well). I have Megatron and AJ Green atop my NFL WRs list, over guys like Julio Jones, because they're doing it with less other receiving talent to take attention away from them. RBs have to factor in their O-lines. Defenders have to factor in just how much help the rest of their defense gives them. It's all a fool's errand anyway, but what else are we to do?




  4. #64
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    You see a lot of great young running-quarterbacks. You don't see many old ones. There's a reason for that
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  5. #65
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    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    You see a lot of great young running-quarterbacks. You don't see many old ones. There's a reason for that
    I don't think anybody could put it better than that. You should sig that.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  6. #66

    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrosin View Post
    The deciding factor for me between these two tiers was mostly contract size. Matt Ryan was the #3 overall pick, Stafford the #1 overall. They're both more expensive than even the recent #1-2 picks (Luck, Griffin, Newton). And they are VASTLY more expensive than Wilson and Kaepernick, both of whom have contracts that can't even be touched for a raise for 1-2 more years thanks to the new CBA. Matt Ryan has one more year and then he's going to be asking for whatever Joe gets this offseason. Stafford is going to want close to that amount.

    Truthfully, both Ryan and Stafford are young enough to merge these two tiers into one.
    fair enough. I think its great work. Id agree Tiers are definitely the way to go about it, but even then theres different ways. Certainly not an exact science.
    -JAB




  7. #67
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    Re: Merril Hoge: "Flacco best QB in the NFL"

    Quote Originally Posted by RD52 View Post
    He just said Flacco is the best QB and people complain about no respect. People just want to complain.
    Agreed.

    Also, he emphasized those are his picks for best QB "right now." He made it very clear that this was not a list based on past accomplishments.




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