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  1. #61
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft



    Thanks, man.

    Here's one last funny one on Zeuss. He left after that season and Ozzie brought him back. During his very first practice
    there was a big fight.

    Art was sitting in his golf cart on the side line. He could see the fight but not the paticipants.

    He quipped, ZEUS MUST BE BACK!


    ILMAO.




  2. #62
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Remember the Leftwich draft and the 30 second phone call Ozzie supposidly made?

    Most of us wanted Leftwich really bad and so did Oz. He even negotiated with Minn for their pick.
    Minn called Oz but they kept hedging. Thing is Jacksonville wanted Leftwich too and knew Oz
    was talking to them so they called Minn to keep them on the line.

    Minn was on the clock and Ozzie kept yelling, you're on the clock, you're on the clock but JAX
    kept stalling them. Finally they said OK but when Ozzie called it in the phone was busy.

    Now that was the first time in draft history someone couldn't call a trade in because the line was
    busy. The obvious answer and that Ozzie's old pal, James Harris, The Shack, called in to tie it up
    but I always wondered if Ozzie really called it in.

    So I asked Phil that night at the Barn and he said yea Ozzie called it in. I was sitting next to him.
    I said well why didn't Ozzie make the trade the day before?

    Phil said because he knew he would get either Leftwich or Suggs.

    BINGO!

    Ozzie wanted Suggs all along. Look how great he became while Lefty bombed out like Boller whom
    Ozzie took next after trading up with NE.

    Suggs dropped because of his poor 40 time at ASU. Phil was there and called Ozzie and said
    Suggs just dropped to us.

    Suggs was the guy Ozzie wanted all along, not Leftwich. Suggs and Boller!


    I'M A FOOTBALL PLAYER, NOT A TRACK STAR. T. SUGGS




  3. #63
    iggyman555 Guest

    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Remember the Leftwich draft and the 30 second phone call Ozzie supposidly made?

    Most of us wanted Leftwich really bad and so did Oz. He even negotiated with Minn for their pick.
    Minn called Oz but they kept hedging. Thing is Jacksonville wanted Leftwich too and knew Oz
    was talking to them so they called Minn to keep them on the line.

    Minn was on the clock and Ozzie kept yelling, you're on the clock, you're on the clock but JAX
    kept stalling them. Finally they said OK but when Ozzie called it in the phone was busy.

    Now that was the first time in draft history someone couldn't call a trade in because the line was
    busy. The obvious answer and that Ozzie's old pal, James Harris, The Shack, called in to tie it up
    but I always wondered if Ozzie really called it in.

    So I asked Phil that night at the Barn and he said yea Ozzie called it in. I was sitting next to him.
    I said well why didn't Ozzie make the trade the day before?

    Phil said because he knew he would get either Leftwich or Suggs.

    BINGO!

    Ozzie wanted Suggs all along. Look how great he became while Lefty bombed out like Boller whom
    Ozzie took next after trading up with NE.

    Suggs dropped because of his poor 40 time at ASU. Phil was there and called Ozzie and said
    Suggs just dropped to us.

    Suggs was the guy Ozzie wanted all along, not Leftwich. Suggs and Boller!


    I'M A FOOTBALL PLAYER, NOT A TRACK STAR. T. SUGGS
    love your stories




  4. #64
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Remember the Leftwich draft and the 30 second phone call Ozzie supposidly made?

    Most of us wanted Leftwich really bad and so did Oz. He even negotiated with Minn for their pick.
    Minn called Oz but they kept hedging. Thing is Jacksonville wanted Leftwich too and knew Oz
    was talking to them so they called Minn to keep them on the line.

    Minn was on the clock and Ozzie kept yelling, you're on the clock, you're on the clock but JAX
    kept stalling them. Finally they said OK but when Ozzie called it in the phone was busy.

    Now that was the first time in draft history someone couldn't call a trade in because the line was
    busy. The obvious answer and that Ozzie's old pal, James Harris, The Shack, called in to tie it up
    but I always wondered if Ozzie really called it in.

    So I asked Phil that night at the Barn and he said yea Ozzie called it in. I was sitting next to him.
    I said well why didn't Ozzie make the trade the day before?

    Phil said because he knew he would get either Leftwich or Suggs.

    BINGO!

    Ozzie wanted Suggs all along. Look how great he became while Lefty bombed out like Boller whom
    Ozzie took next after trading up with NE.

    Suggs dropped because of his poor 40 time at ASU. Phil was there and called Ozzie and said
    Suggs just dropped to us.

    Suggs was the guy Ozzie wanted all along, not Leftwich. Suggs and Boller!


    I'M A FOOTBALL PLAYER, NOT A TRACK STAR. T. SUGGS
    That was a great story, I hadn't heard that one in that mucb detail. Thanks.




  5. #65
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Take it easy there Wicked. Many were calling Kruger a BUST in his rookie season. It took him 3 years to become the solid LB he is now. Upshaw just finished his rookie season, a pretty good one IMO, and I believe he will improve with coaching and getting into top physical football shape. I believe in a year or two, there will be GMs kicking themselves for not drafting him in the 1st round. Ozzie got him in the 2nd... Bc

    I'm not calling Upshaw a bust at all. He's got a ton of upside, but I just don't see it as a pass rusher. I watch a lot of college ball and I watch a lot of SEC ball. I always thought that Upshaw would be a good fit in Baltimore's D, but not necessarily as a pure pass rusher.

    The comparison to Kruger, IMO, isn't really that good of a comparison. As others have mentioned in here, Kruger was asked to transition to (essentially) a 5-technique DE/DT when in college he was a defensive end/pass rusher. That's why the first two years he was pretty much non-existent.

    Like I said, I see Upshaw as a 5-7 sack per year type of pass rusher and because of that I would really like to see the Ravens keep Kruger and/or draft a quick-twitch pass rusher. Having a guy who just completely keeps OT's off-balance playing opposite of Suggs or Upshaw would be a really nice compliment. There are a couple of guys like that in this draft that I think the Ravens will have a shot at too.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



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  6. #66
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    One detail no one's mentioned yet is that even though Upshaw has turned out to be a great pick, the 29th overall pick we gave to Minnesota turned out to be Harrison Smith. Smith turned out to be an excellent free safety and could have comfortably been Reed's successor.


    I'm not saying we should have taken Harrison Smith instead of taking Upshaw (it's kinda hard to complain after a season in which we won the SB in which said player made a huge play, plus the extra pick gave us Gino), but it's interesting to think what we could have had. I guess this is one of those draft day trades where both teams benefit.




  7. #67
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by inexplicable View Post
    One detail no one's mentioned yet is that even though Upshaw has turned out to be a great pick, the 29th overall pick we gave to Minnesota turned out to be Harrison Smith. Smith turned out to be an excellent free safety and could have comfortably been Reed's successor.


    I'm not saying we should have taken Harrison Smith instead of taking Upshaw (it's kinda hard to complain after a season in which we won the SB in which said player made a huge play, plus the extra pick gave us Gino), but it's interesting to think what we could have had. I guess this is one of those draft day trades where both teams benefit.

    Good point.

    I think the D would have suffered more this year without Upshaw though.

    However, Harrison Smith would have been a nice player to have waiting in the wings.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



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  8. #68
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by inexplicable View Post
    One detail no one's mentioned yet is that even though Upshaw has turned out to be a great pick, the 29th overall pick we gave to Minnesota turned out to be Harrison Smith. Smith turned out to be an excellent free safety and could have comfortably been Reed's successor.


    I'm not saying we should have taken Harrison Smith instead of taking Upshaw (it's kinda hard to complain after a season in which we won the SB in which said player made a huge play, plus the extra pick gave us Gino), but it's interesting to think what we could have had. I guess this is one of those draft day trades where both teams benefit.
    Upshaw has also been one of the top 3-4 OLB's in stopping the run.

    From PFF: Rookie outside linebacker Courtney Upshaw has a Run Stop Percentage of 9.8%, which is the second-best for 3-4 outside linebackers this year.




  9. #69

    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I'm not calling Upshaw a bust at all. He's got a ton of upside, but I just don't see it as a pass rusher. I watch a lot of college ball and I watch a lot of SEC ball. I always thought that Upshaw would be a good fit in Baltimore's D, but not necessarily as a pure pass rusher.

    The comparison to Kruger, IMO, isn't really that good of a comparison. As others have mentioned in here, Kruger was asked to transition to (essentially) a 5-technique DE/DT when in college he was a defensive end/pass rusher. That's why the first two years he was pretty much non-existent.

    Like I said, I see Upshaw as a 5-7 sack per year type of pass rusher and because of that I would really like to see the Ravens keep Kruger and/or draft a quick-twitch pass rusher. Having a guy who just completely keeps OT's off-balance playing opposite of Suggs or Upshaw would be a really nice compliment. There are a couple of guys like that in this draft that I think the Ravens will have a shot at too.
    A lot of people want to put Upshaw on a pedestal, by merely making those expectations more realistic, some take it as bashing or thinking hes a bust. Im with you, hes a talented young player with upside and plenty of room for improvement, but i think its foolish to expect him to be something he just physically isnt. I still think hed have had more success in the NFL as a 4-3 DE than 3-4 OLB, but thats not to say hell have a bad career at this position.
    -JAB




  10. #70

    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by somedumbguy View Post
    I saw on a Texans board that they mostly are happy that their former Texans got rings. THe funniest line I saw was something like: " Baltimore gets the most out of Jacoby because they have a QB that makes passes look like punts and those are the only things he can catch."

    I gotta say after ours, the Texans are quickly becoming my second favorite fan base.
    It's nice to see some Texan fans expressing the goodwill towards the ex-Texans and the Ravens in general. Others...notably some bloggers...have been less generous.

    Can't say I really blame them...this has been an extremely frustrating past couple of years for them.

    They thought they had finally ARRIVED last season, only to see their season go down due to injuries to Andre Johnson and Schaub, and some key drops by Jacoby Jones.

    This year, with the return to health of Schaub and Johnson, and the jettisoning of Jones, along with the departure of their decade-long nemisis Peyton Manning from the AFC South, they thought it was all set-up for them.

    And for 1/2 a season, it seemed that way...they dominated some teams, beat Manning in Denver, and crushed the Ravens in October (validating a widely held opinion of Flacco as being an average QB, at best, easily rattled by the better teams in the league). They had the clear inside track on the #1 seed.

    Then it all fell apart...and the really frustrating thing is that there is no one or two things that they can pin it on this time. Everyone stayed healthy, for the most part. But the defense regressed - getting torched by the Patriots, Lions and Jaguars and gave up key scores/drives versus the Vikings and the Colts (again, the Colts) in #1 seed-clinching games.

    Even more disturbing was their offense....as the games and the pressure got bigger, their star players got smaller...especially Schaub. As Flacco's star rose, it cast a blinding counter-perspective on Schaub's performance in the big games. It just wasn't supposed to be that way...Flacco was supposed to be the QB to fold under pressure...and Jacoby Jones was ("just wait for it") supposed to make the big mistake in the crucial situation. And hear they sit, reading about Flacco's Super Bowl MVP historic playoff run in a magazine graced by Jacoby Jones.

    Even now...some still claim that Flacco's success is by-and-large due to the Ravens defense...as if Trent Dilfer was behind center and Marvin Lewis, Peter Boulware, Tony Siragusa and Rod Woodson were on the side-line.

    Now? They have franchise-QB money invested in a QB that they are not really sure is a franchise-QB, and are stuck with him for at least 2 more seasons. Worse, they have an offensive system that doesn't seem to fit their players and/or the big games in which they want to compete (sound familiar). Much worse, that system is not tied-up in an offensive coordinator - which, as we have seen, can be jettisoned at just about any point - rather, that system is Kubiak's system. To make whole-sale changes you are probably talking about a head-coaching change. Makes the risk of switching out OCs in week 14 look small by comparison.

    Yeah...in general nice fans...and who knows? The way the league works they could very well be holding championship parades in Houston at this time next year....but for now, I think it sucks to be them....
    Last edited by JohnBKistler; 02-06-2013 at 10:46 AM.




  11. #71
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Like I said, I see Upshaw as a 5-7 sack per year type of pass rusher and because of that I would really like to see the Ravens keep Kruger and/or draft a quick-twitch pass rusher. Having a guy who just completely keeps OT's off-balance playing opposite of Suggs or Upshaw would be a really nice compliment. There are a couple of guys like that in this draft that I think the Ravens will have a shot at too.
    I hear what you're saying and I think you're right about the types of players that Kruger and Upshaw are.

    But if Kruger is going to cost somewhere in the vicinity of $10M (?) per year, or even close to that, then for that kind of money I want not just a very good player, but a complete 3-down player. And I'm not convinced that Kruger meets that threshold as a run-stopper, edge setter, or (occasionally) dropping back into zone coverage. Pass rush is really the only thing that he does at a level that catches your eye.

    Even if we accept that Kruger is a first-rate pass rusher (and I'm not entirely convinced of that, though I am close) is that enough to justify paying him this kind of money, when we have other pressing needs to squeeze under a salary cap and when Kruger sees the field (and for $10M he'd better be there on every snap!) it means Upshaw - a guy who basically plays the same position and is a talented player who we need to develop and get production from - will usually sit on the bench?

    I like Kruger as a player but IMO he's at a logjam position and will command a payday we can't realistically compete with given our salary cap situation.

    Losing Kruger will be a step back for our pass rush, which is obviously not good, but with the salary cap it's a pick-your-poison situation. Keeping Kruger would mean letting other important guys go, guys who I think are more important to the team than Kruger.




  12. #72
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Teavo View Post
    I hear what you're saying and I think you're right about the types of players that Kruger and Upshaw are.

    But if Kruger is going to cost somewhere in the vicinity of $10M (?) per year, or even close to that, then for that kind of money I want not just a very good player, but a complete 3-down player. And I'm not convinced that Kruger meets that threshold as a run-stopper, edge setter, or (occasionally) dropping back into zone coverage. Pass rush is really the only thing that he does at a level that catches your eye.

    Even if we accept that Kruger is a first-rate pass rusher (and I'm not entirely convinced of that, though I am close) is that enough to justify paying him this kind of money, when we have other pressing needs to squeeze under a salary cap and when Kruger sees the field (and for $10M he'd better be there on every snap!) it means Upshaw - a guy who basically plays the same position and is a talented player who we need to develop and get production from - will usually sit on the bench?

    I like Kruger as a player but IMO he's at a logjam position and will command a payday we can't realistically compete with given our salary cap situation.

    Losing Kruger will be a step back for our pass rush, which is obviously not good, but with the salary cap it's a pick-your-poison situation. Keeping Kruger would mean letting other important guys go, guys who I think are more important to the team than Kruger.
    All good points though I think Kruger has evolved into a 1st rate pass rusher. Especially as a 3-4 OLB. Can he be an every down player? Probably. However, as a pass rusher, he can do some damage.

    I'd look at Pagano targeting him with a pretty significant contract. I don't think the Ravens would be able to match.

    Frankly, keeping Kruger would almost surely mean losing Ellerbe and as good as Kruger has become, the ILB is in a much worse spot than OLB.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  13. #73
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    He got a sack in his first game as a rookie in Philly filling in for Suggs.

    He got a big fumble in the SB tonight.

    Nothing but upside with Upshaw. What a great career winning the National Championship
    at Alabama and the SB with the Ravens.

    What a great draft.

    Future All Pro Upshaw
    Future All Pro KO
    Pierce
    Gino who will take over for Birk next year


    And the dark horse - Streeter.


    IN OZ WE TRUST
    And the other dark horse, Deonte Thompson.

    And Justin fucking Tucker.




  14. #74
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Thanks guys.

    Yea, I keep forgetting to add Tucker Time on because he wasn't really drafted. He was an
    undrafted FA in the Priest HOlmes mold. He iced the SB with those 4th qtr FGs. WE almost
    blow a 28 pt lead but Justin padded the score and they never passed us because of him
    and Joe driving down the field eating up the clock.

    Tucker Time makes this class even stronger.

    One bit of irony here about how James Harris figuring in on our history. He was Ozzie's right hand
    when the Browns came here. He was part of the Phil Savage crowd that included the current
    GM of KC who was NE's GM during all their great SB teams and then later DeCosta.
    He was the guy who got Leftwich from Ozzie if you believe Ozzie really waned Lefty.

    Anyway, JAX offered PHil Savage their GM job but Phil turned it down because Weaver was a strong
    owner and Phil wanted full management control, so he turned it down but recommended his
    pal The Shack. He also recommended Jack Del Rio our linebackers coach on our SB 35 team.
    Weaver hired both.

    YOu can thank Harris for Joe Flacco as well as Suggs.

    Ozzie drafted 10th in the Flacco draft and wanted Joe but not at that spot so he traded with his
    old pal and went down to their 26 spot. JAX needed the best pass rusher on the board to stop
    the Colts and took a guy name Harvey, I think. Have to look it up but they took a pass rusher.

    Ravens traded down because Flacco wasn't a good value to pay him 10th spot money. He was
    projected to go high in the 2d round. In fact, Parcells wanted Flacco bad but figured he get
    him at the top of the 2d after taking his protection Jake Long first but Ozzie spoiled his
    plan. ILMAO - Flacco should have been the first player drafted, not a lineman-lol. Parcells
    is out of football too.

    After Oz took the 26th spot he heard that the Jets and Gruden wanted Flacco so he traded back
    up and one spot ahead of Gruden who is not out of football because he didn't have a QB.
    Oz traded with JAX again. He robbed his old pal blind because Flacco just became the SB
    MVP and the shack is out of football. So is Del Rio and so is PHil Savage who took Joe Thomas
    in the first round, then his QB who bombed out.

    They're all gone but Ozzie still lives as the real champ.

    BTW, Flacco wasn't even on my radar. I thought we were drafting Henne because Peter King
    said he had the Ravens play book the night before the draft and Ozzie always takes guys
    from big schools. I fell over when he drafted JOe.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 02-06-2013 at 02:57 PM.




  15. #75
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    Re: Don't forget Upshaw - what a draft

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Thanks guys.

    Yea, I keep forgetting to add Tucker Time on because he wasn't really drafted. He was an
    undrafted FA in the Priest HOlmes mold. He iced the SB with those 4th qtr FGs. WE almost
    blow a 28 pt lead but Justin padded the score and they never passed us because of him
    and Joe driving down the field eating up the clock.

    Tucker Time makes this class even stronger.

    One bit of irony here about how James Harris figuring in on our history. He was Ozzie's right hand
    when the Browns came here. He was part of the Phil Savage crowd that included the current
    GM of KC who was NE's GM during all their great SB teams and then later DeCosta.
    He was the guy who got Leftwich from Ozzie if you believe Ozzie really waned Lefty.

    Anyway, JAX offered PHil Savage their GM job but Phil turned it down because Weaver was a strong
    owner and Phil wanted full management control, so he turned it down but recommended his
    pal The Shack. He also recommended Jack Del Rio our linebackers coach on our SB 35 team.
    Weaver hired both.

    YOu can thank Harris for Joe Flacco as well as Suggs.

    Ozzie drafted 10th in the Flacco draft and wanted Joe but not at that spot so he traded with his
    old pal and went down to their 26 spot. JAX needed the best pass rusher on the board to stop
    the Colts and took a guy name Harvey, I think. Have to look it up but they took a pass rusher.

    Ravens traded down because Flacco wasn't a good value to pay him 10th spot money. He was
    projected to go high in the 2d round. In fact, Parcells wanted Flacco bad but figured he get
    him at the top of the 2d after taking his protection Jake Long first but Ozzie spoiled his
    plan. ILMAO - Flacco should have been the first player drafted, not a lineman-lol. Parcells
    is out of football too.

    After Oz took the 26th spot he heard that the Jets and Gruden wanted Flacco so he traded back
    up and one spot ahead of Gruden who is not out of football because he didn't have a QB.
    Oz traded with JAX again. He robbed his old pal blind because Flacco just became the SB
    MVP and the shack is out of football. So is Del Rio and so is PHil Savage who took Joe Thomas
    in the first round, then his QB who bombed out.

    They're all gone but Ozzie still lives as the real champ.
    fascinating stuff. the sort of thing that goes on behind closed doors we never hear about.
    Del Rio did have a few good years, esp beating Pigsburgh in the playoffs.
    Baltimore Ravens, 2012 NFL Champions!




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