Ray Lewis PED Allegations (Merged)

**RavenScallywag** · 02-01-2013, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Lending credence to the theory Ray did place an order but got caught buying / given crap that essentially is useless.

Fits the behavior pattern I've observed thus far.

I think this might be the part I agree with. I think Ray was desperate to get back and decided to give this stuff a try. Probably didn't order it from the guy, but it sounded more like he sent him stuff in the hope Ray would fully endorse him.

Ray's denial was partially to get away from the PR nightmare about it being a banned substance, but mostly probably embarrassment about being linked to Mitch Ross.

It blemishes his character slightly...but honestly, I don't buy that Ray took the stuff to try and cheat. I think he was so desperate to get back, he tried just about any and everything to get back.

**bt12483** · 02-01-2013, 08:23 AM

Here is the NFLPA banned substances list:
http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaRe...nce%20List.pdf
(looks quite unprofessional I might add)

It says that doping methods include introduction of the substance via "ingestion or injection of a supplement or other product containing a Prohibited Substance".

If I were an attorney representing players, I would test the limits of this "other product" clause, since certain types of milk and salmon have IGF-1.
See http://www.aquabounty.com/documents/...ion_of_AAS.PDF (see labelled page 5)

According to the rules as written, players can't drink milk and eat salmon. That seems...ridiculous.

The NFLPA list seems relatively broad in presentation. I would expect such a document to be much more detailed and organized in its presentation. I can see why certain players have issues regarding the interpretation of certain things re: banned substances. At the end of each category they list "and related substances"...um...OK...exactly what qualifies as "related"? I can see why players win appeals...I would tear this document up with respect to it lacking specificity. I would have expected to see a much more professional and detailed document. It looks like something typed up by a teenager.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 02-01-2013, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2013/0...ned-substance/

So apparently the reporter has seen canceled checks of Ray ordering previous products from the guy

The reporter believes the stuff is bullshit in its effectiveness

He says that Ray told him he's used other products besides the spray that weren't banned (so there is definitely an association with the company)

The guy (Mitch Ross) actually came to The Castle in 2008 to film testimonials but was kicked out.

Other players used his various products (and were willing to vouch for them) up until the Rams linebacker was popped for Roids

The reporter (Epstein) said he's seen videotapes of the conversation and the decision to release them (or not) is being debated by higher ups.

Goes back to what I said earlier about what Ray should have said about this when it came out.

I don't now if the Ravens PR people didn't read the article and present everything to Ray...including the alleged taping of the conversation, but it was a blunder IMHO.

Ray should have just said he ordered some stuff, but he never used any spray (hell, include the team in this and say he brought the entire package to be checked by the Ravens and they told him don't use the spray)...instead of the "this is a 2 year old story" stuff which is not what the article was about.

If this guy shows any proof, forget the cheating stuff...nothing can be proved...but Ray really looks like a liar and if you get caught looking like a liar, you lose a lot of trust.

What is that trust worth in the long run? To those who are defending him to no end, they won't care. To those who hate/disliked him before, he is 100% guilty in their minds.

For those who are objective, it's pretty damaging.

I think the Ravens PR really screwed the pooch...I read somewhere that the Ravens just urged him to do a strong denial.

**NCRAVEN** · 02-01-2013, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Goes back to what I said earlier about what Ray should have said about this when it came out.

I don't now if the Ravens PR people didn't read the article and present everything to Ray...including the alleged taping of the conversation, but it was a blunder IMHO.

Ray should have just said he ordered some stuff, but he never used any spray (hell, include the team in this and say he brought the entire package to be checked by the Ravens and they told him don't use the spray)...instead of the "this is a 2 year old story" stuff which is not what the article was about.

If this guy shows any proof, forget the cheating stuff...nothing can be proved...but Ray really looks like a liar and if you get caught looking like a liar, you lose a lot of trust.

What is that trust worth in the long run? To those who are defending him to no end, they won't care. To those who hate/disliked him before, he is 100% guilty in their minds.

For those who are objective, it's pretty damaging.

I think the Ravens PR really screwed the pooch...I read somewhere that the Ravens just urged him to do a strong denial.

I agree, expect for the pretty damaging, I think that part remains to be seen.

Just based of what Ross said and the SI guy's interview there are a lot in inconsistencies...

**NC Raven** · 02-01-2013, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by iggyman555

Hue Jackson apologizes to Ray Lewis and entire Ravens organization for introducing them to S.W.A.T.S owner

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...7615--nfl.html

Thanks Hue, ya fucking idiot. You know the phrase "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt?" Well, since that's probably too complex a sentence for you to understand, it means "Shut the fuck up, dumbass."

"Hey there's a big controversy before the Super Bowl. Why don't I throw in my two cents to add credence to the whole thing and make it worse?"

What a joke. No wonder he only lasted one year as a HC. Dumb that he got involved with SWATS to start with, and the complete lack of media awareness to even comment on it right now, at this time, shows he is nowhere close to NFL HC material. Go back to washing jockstraps, Hue.

**Hammerhead** · 02-01-2013, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

I agree, expect for the pretty damaging, I think that part remains to be seen.

Just based of what Ross said and the SI guy's interview there are a lot in inconsistencies...

Tons of inconsistencies and no proof that Ray took a banned substance -- even if you infer his intent to do so. You can do something that you think is illegal, but if it isn't, you aren't sent to jail for your bad intentions. You go to jail for doing what the law prohibits.

The MOST that will come out of this story is that Ray ordered this stuff from this guy. You will not be able to know whether he thought it was illegal or even if he took it. But even if you infer that, there is simply no proof that Ray took a banned substance (as that spray does not contain that substance) and that it provided him any sort of advantage. You may be able to argue his wasn't being bright and was not well intentioned, but that is probably the extent of it.

**HoustonRaven** · 02-01-2013, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Goes back to what I said earlier about what Ray should have said about this when it came out.

I don't now if the Ravens PR people didn't read the article and present everything to Ray...including the alleged taping of the conversation, but it was a blunder IMHO.

Ray should have just said he ordered some stuff, but he never used any spray (hell, include the team in this and say he brought the entire package to be checked by the Ravens and they told him don't use the spray)...instead of the "this is a 2 year old story" stuff which is not what the article was about.

If this guy shows any proof, forget the cheating stuff...nothing can be proved...but Ray really looks like a liar and if you get caught looking like a liar, you lose a lot of trust.

What is that trust worth in the long run? To those who are defending him to no end, they won't care. To those who hate/disliked him before, he is 100% guilty in their minds.

For those who are objective, it's pretty damaging.

I think the Ravens PR really screwed the pooch...I read somewhere that the Ravens just urged him to do a strong denial.

This is where I'm at as well.

Ray did not handle this well from the word go and why I thought he was hiding something, based on his first presser.

It sucks for the fans too. As if it wasn't bad enough we constantly have to defend the Atlanta nonsense, now we have to hear cheater as well.

**NCRAVEN** · 02-01-2013, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

Tons of inconsistencies and no proof that Ray took a banned substance -- even if you infer his intent to do so. You can do something that you think is illegal, but if it isn't, you aren't sent to jail for your bad intentions. You go to jail for doing what the law prohibits.

The MOST that will come out of this story is that Ray ordered this stuff from this guy. You will not be able to know whether he thought it was illegal or even if he took it. But even if you infer that, there is simply no proof that Ray took a banned substance (as that spray does not contain that substance) and that it provided him any sort of advantage. You may be able to argue his wasn't being bright and was not well intentioned, but that is probably the extent of it.

I agree with all of this.

I guess what I mean by I'll wait to see how damaging this may be, is because I want to see how much if any "evidence" this guy Ross has. According to him he sends the stuff to athletes they don't buy it. But the SI guy in his radio interview said he saw cancelled checks, when the interviewers asked would they release them, he avoided the question by going back to Ray's comments about acknowledging they (Ross and Lewis) spoke.

So nothing here is provable, or of any real consequence. Just how much we fans will have to deal with the idiot murder/cheater cheater crap remains to be seen based of what Ross says/does.

**RavenScallywag** · 02-01-2013, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by NC Raven

Thanks Hue, ya fucking idiot. You know the phrase "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt?" Well, since that's probably too complex a sentence for you to understand, it means "Shut the fuck up, dumbass."

"Hey there's a big controversy before the Super Bowl. Why don't I throw in my two cents to add credence to the whole thing and make it worse?"

What a joke. No wonder he only lasted one year as a HC. Dumb that he got involved with SWATS to start with, and the complete lack of media awareness to even comment on it right now, at this time, shows he is nowhere close to NFL HC material. Go back to washing jockstraps, Hue.

This was part of the story 2 years ago...Hue was involved with them while with the Ravens org and introduced them awhile ago.

In 2011, he was ordered by the NFL to cut ties with them

**Dirt1** · 02-01-2013, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

I agree with all of this.

I guess what I mean by I'll wait to see how damaging this may be, is because I want to see how much if any "evidence" this guy Ross has. According to him he sends the stuff to athletes they don't buy it. But the SI guy in his radio interview said he saw cancelled checks, when the interviewers asked would they release them, he avoided the question by going back to Ray's comments about acknowledging they (Ross and Lewis) spoke.

So nothing here is provable, or of any real consequence. Just how much we fans will have to deal with the idiot murder/cheater cheater crap remains to be seen based of what Ross says/does.

How would he get his hands on cancelled checks? They are held by the bank of the person who wrote the check. The only way he could get even copies of cancelled checks would be from Ray, and I doubt that Ray would ever hand something like that over. This smells like BS to me. He might have shipping receipts showing that he sent some of this stuff to Ray with the hopes of Ray endorsing his product, but I doubt that he has cancelled checks showing that Ray bought this stuff from him. Now, if Ray was stupid enough to pay with a credit card, that is a different matter.

**B-more Ravor** · 02-01-2013, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Dirt1

How would he get his hands on cancelled checks? They are held by the bank of the person who wrote the check. The only way he could get even copies of cancelled checks would be from Ray, and I doubt that Ray would ever hand something like that over. This smells like BS to me. He might have shipping receipts showing that he sent some of this stuff to Ray with the hopes of Ray endorsing his product, but I doubt that he has cancelled checks showing that Ray bought this stuff from him. Now, if Ray was stupid enough to pay with a credit card, that is a different matter.

Could just be semantics. The guy could have kept "copies of checks" from Ray. Given that he was apparently recording conversations, it wouldn't surprise me that he was making copies of checks as well.

**NCRAVEN** · 02-01-2013, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Dirt1

How would he get his hands on cancelled checks? They are held by the bank of the person who wrote the check. The only way he could get even copies of cancelled checks would be from Ray, and I doubt that Ray would ever hand something like that over. This smells like BS to me. He might have shipping receipts showing that he sent some of this stuff to Ray with the hopes of Ray endorsing his product, but I doubt that he has cancelled checks showing that Ray bought this stuff from him. Now, if Ray was stupid enough to pay with a credit card, that is a different matter.

That's kinda my point. Ross says Lewis didn't pay for anything and SI guy says he's seen canceled checks...