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  1. #361

    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...



    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I could say the same about the press the story is getting from people wondering if he took it.

    Hell just a few post up there is a link of a guy saying he should sit out the Super Bowl cause he might have taken this stuff that may or may not work (but he doesn't say that, he just says Deer antler contains IGF-1, so much for investigating your story).
    So people are wondering if he took it.

    It's reasonable to wonder based on the fact that Ray made a horrible choice to even deal with this attention whoring moron. The fact that he spoke with him and asked him to send him some "stuff" is a huge red flag to people.

    And while we all hate it, this is what the press does...they report things and give opinions. With the Ben stuff, they never came out and said "Ben raped this girl".

    They posted the facts as told to them and presented them to everybody...and we all did what we do, we form an opinion based off of what we read and come to our own conclusions.

    Sometimes in life, whether you are guilty of actually committing a bad deed or not, others will judge based off of what they have...and in this case, the fact that Ray accepted a package to help him recover from his injury is a huge red flag.

    I mean earlier in this thread, there were a lot of people that didn't even think a conversation ever happened...that the guy just made up the conversation and lied about taping it.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  2. #362

    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    Raveninwoodlawn and Houstonraven(moderator)
    Guys, you have had some respected opinions for years, but how you can buy any of this TMZ, enquirer type journalism is beyond me. No facts, no shipment, no confirmed test, no proof alleged product works and released on media day? By a creepy salesman of a fraudulant product looking for multimillion dollar free advertising to increase sales and webb traffic. All of this just taken on "his word" really? All this to tear down an NFL legend before his last game in the superbowl. Thought you guys could see the forrest though the trees. This is the worst "journalism" Ive ever seen and people should lose jobs over it.

    Live from the Big Easy!! Peaceout. Respect.
    Last edited by Boulderraven; 01-30-2013 at 01:11 PM.




  3. #363

    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider
    Ray lewis 'I think it's one of the most embarrassing things I never ever took any of those things I don't need it my teammates don't need it
    Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider
    Ray lewis 'the guy has no credibility you can use the word agitated angry? Nothing from the outside could ever make me angry'
    Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider
    Ed reed 'I know what ray goes through I know how hard he works' says ray lewis is clean
    More tweets




  4. #364

    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    The obsession of this thread is giving these unsubstantiated and ridiculous claims more credibility than they deserve. I've replied to other posts and this one continues to have momentum. There's 18 pages of posts on here already, are we adding anything new to this absurd discussion?




  5. #365
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    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Teavo View Post
    You are missing the point. Not all circumstantial evidence is created equal.

    Again, you are confusing quality of evidence with judgement which is why your analogy is poor.

    Fact, not opinion: The Georgia prosecutor thought the allegations in the Pig Ben case were worthy of further investigation. We know this because investigation occurred and was reported.

    Steelers fans can say what they like, but the above fact remains. The evidence was serious enough to merit official scrutiny.

    To my knowledge there has been no evidence presented in the deer antler issue that's even worthy of taking seriously. If there has been, please tell me what it is.
    Along these same lines I would add that the NFL also must have had enough credible evidence to Ben's conduct to suspend him, what, 4 or 6 games (can't remember the length now). The NFL has literally backed away from Ray's story which speaks on the credibility of the person making the allegations and the lack of any facts researched or presented.




  6. #366
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    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    So people are wondering if he took it.

    It's reasonable to wonder based on the fact that Ray made a horrible choice to even deal with this attention whoring moron. The fact that he spoke with him and asked him to send him some "stuff" is a huge red flag to people.

    And while we all hate it, this is what the press does...they report things and give opinions. With the Ben stuff, they never came out and said "Ben raped this girl".

    They posted the facts as told to them and presented them to everybody...and we all did what we do, we form an opinion based off of what we read and come to our own conclusions.

    Sometimes in life, whether you are guilty of actually committing a bad deed or not, others will judge based off of what they have...and in this case, the fact that Ray accepted a package to help him recover from his injury is a huge red flag.

    I mean earlier in this thread, there were a lot of people that didn't even think a conversation ever happened...that the guy just made up the conversation and lied about taping it.
    I think you're missing where my anger is directed. It is reasonable for people to assume he took it. Not debating that.

    What I am pissed about, is what the media does all the time. And this time they are doing it and it's more apparent they are leaving facts out just to keep the story going.

    This WHOLE thing could be put to bed by investigating deer antler spray and that it's complete bullshit that it contains IGF-1. If this guys came out and said "I sent Ray Lewis IGF-1 and needles" that would be different.

    Instead, we have a guy who is pushing snake oil and the media is willing playing along saying "Lewis is linked to banned substance". When they could say a guy said he sent Lewis deer antler spray which he claims has a banned substance, when in reality it's complete and total bullshit.


    Mitch Ross in his early years before the sports media gave him free press

    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #367

    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenScallywag View Post
    Houston, I have to ask...

    Do you want Ray to be suspended for the game? I mean, I get it, many of us are flat out looking for any and all evidence that this is BS, but certainly SOMETHING went on here it seems...So I get it that you want to point out the double standard (I've stopped calling Big Ben by the rapist moniker. He might've been dumb about the way he acted, but he did not rape anyone. MANY more things we can make fun of him for)

    but, it's becoming obvious in many circles that this deer antler spray, IGF, and SWATS is all a convoluted mess. And that convoluted piece means, in the end, nothing is going to happen with Ray officially. In the media, sure, I'll be many writers will try to tee off and claim this nullifies his whole career and proves his character was never truly "Righted" as he claimed.

    But why should WE care about that? As seen yesterday, Dave Demeshek "apologized" to Joe Flacco for his hounding of him, and then suggested he might've motivated Joe to play better, then threw in another dig at him. Now, I know he's more a comedy guy, but again, do we REALLY care what the media thinks of Joe?

    I'm betting:

    1. Ray Lewis plays Sunday
    2. Nothing from this season is taken away by the NFL from the Ravens
    3. Ray Lewis will still be a first ballot Hall of Famer

    So, what is your point of view on this? What do you hope happens? Ray has now come out and directly denied using it. So, while denial does not equal innocence, it seems to have addressed your initial worry.
    Not HR, but being as though I am the only other poster here that isn't immediately tossing this in the trash bin, there is no way HR or myself want Ray suspended.

    There is no way I WANT anything bad to happen to Ray.

    My thing is, if he took the stuff, personally, for my own opinion of Ray and what he has stood for, it will have gone down a couple notches. After all the "respect the game" and preaching, for him to have gone and done something that is cheating the game, it's heartbreaking to me. I know a lot of us have gone down the "this stuff didn't have the IGF or whatever in it in the first place" route, and I hope that's the case too, but IMHO, the thing I'm looking at is I hope he never sprayed it on himself at all.

    Nobody will ever know the real truth as Ray could not be tested for it (unless he volunteered to go to an independent testing agency). There will always be doubt though because he made a very, very poor decision to deal with this guy and his company who he had been warned about in the first place.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  8. #368

    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens27Girl View Post
    Along these same lines I would add that the NFL also must have had enough credible evidence to Ben's conduct to suspend him, what, 4 or 6 games (can't remember the length now). The NFL has literally backed away from Ray's story which speaks on the credibility of the person making the allegations and the lack of any facts researched or presented.
    Exactly. And the NFL hasn't even said the spray itself was banned, have they? I mean, they really have said, and will say nothing on this matter, they consider it not worth even talking about.

    A manufacturer of the stuff says it contains no IGF-1, because IGF-1 cannot exist in a spray, it breaks down unless it is freeze-dried, and contained in a special freeze-dried container. The only way to take IGF-1 is intravenously.

    So really, the reason this is a "story" is because Ross is claiming his spray is unfairly "banned" because it contains IGF-1. Yet the NFL hasn't said if the spray is banned or not, that they have not tested it themselves. The spray is registered by the USDA as a food product and is sold all over the place in retail stores. Scientists involved with the making of the product have said there is NO IFG-1 in the stuff, and that it's physically impossible for it to be.

    The media is being played by Ross, rather easily, and sadly at the expense of Ray. Ray did the right thing here. He dismissed it as being absurd, because well, it is absurd. There is no way possible to test if Ray actually used it, or if he did even knew it had IGF-1 in it, so it is a complete moot point.

    Judging by what I saw today, the story is already starting to die down, and many are questioning the integrity of Ross. Really the next course of dialog will be the things I mentioned above, which will pretty much throw water over the whole thing, except for SI and Ross, who likely will be the ones being talked about. Once that happens, Ross is going to be vilified for the creep that he is.




  9. #369

    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I think you're missing where my anger is directed. It is reasonable for people to assume he took it. Not debating that.

    What I am pissed about, is what the media does all the time. And this time they are doing it and it's more apparent they are leaving facts out just to keep the story going.

    This WHOLE thing could be put to bed by investigating deer antler spray and that it's complete bullshit that it contains IGF-1. If this guys came out and said "I sent Ray Lewis IGF-1 and needles" that would be different.

    Instead, we have a guy who is pushing snake oil and the media is willing playing along saying "Lewis is linked to banned substance". When they could say a guy said he sent Lewis deer antler spray which he claims has a banned substance, when in reality it's complete and total bullshit.


    Mitch Ross in his early years before the sports media gave him free press

    That's unfortunate and I agree that the press often doesn't go deep enough.

    But unfortunately, it's always been that way and it will continue to be that way and we all...including everybody in this thread has been guilty of eating it up when it affected someone we didn't like or didn't care about.

    I don't know what can be done about that. It's the society we live in unfortunately.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  10. #370

    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    I have to say, it's a good thing the NFL Network is around. I have watched show after show on Ray Lewis in the last couple days, including a coach's roundtable afterwards. Everything I have watched, read, and feel like I learned about Ray Lewis tells me he wouldn't take anything illegal to help him rehab. Much less call someone about it.

    I still think this is a BS story designed to disrupt the Super Bowl week for the Ravens.




  11. #371
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    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    Exactly. And the NFL hasn't even said the spray itself was banned, have they? I mean, they really have said, and will say nothing on this matter, they consider it not worth even talking about.

    A manufacturer of the stuff says it contains no IGF-1, because IGF-1 cannot exist in a spray, it breaks down unless it is freeze-dried, and contained in a special freeze-dried container. The only way to take IGF-1 is intravenously.

    So really, the reason this is a "story" is because Ross is claiming his spray is unfairly "banned" because it contains IGF-1. Yet the NFL hasn't said if the spray is banned or not, that they have not tested it themselves. The spray is registered by the USDA as a food product and is sold all over the place in retail stores. Scientists involved with the making of the product have said there is NO IFG-1 in the stuff, and that it's physically impossible for it to be.

    The media is being played by Ross, rather easily, and sadly at the expense of Ray. Ray did the right thing here. He dismissed it as being absurd, because well, it is absurd. There is no way possible to test if Ray actually used it, or if he did even knew it had IGF-1 in it, so it is a complete moot point.

    Judging by what I saw today, the story is already starting to die down, and many are questioning the integrity of Ross. Really the next course of dialog will be the things I mentioned above, which will pretty much throw water over the whole thing, except for SI and Ross, who likely will be the ones being talked about. Once that happens, Ross is going to be vilified for the creep that he is.


    /thread
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  12. #372
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    Re: Oh, geez, here it comes (dread)...

    Even if he did do this, I don't give two shits, it barely has any of that substance in it, if at all. It doesn't give anyone a competitive edge, it just enables you to heal quicker from devastating injuries. What the hell is wrong with that? Its not as if he went out and flat out took steroids. If this thing does work, it should probably be promoted to athletes rather than being banned, what is wrong with taking a substance to help you heal from injuries? I don't see what the big deal is with that at all.




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