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  1. #106
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money



    Quote Originally Posted by rlh445 View Post
    Dude, Flacco's entire body of work is gonna be darn near impossible to replicate for any new QB's run in a five year stretch. WITH Cameron here as the OC, Flacco was already impressive. The 'inconsistency' everybody loves to carry on about was a symptom of the calls, not the quarterback. Flacco has done everything asked of him AND MORE and this postseason run isn't just three games, it was a glimpse of what could have and should have been a couple of years ago 'till now if we had just told Cam to stuff it. THIS is what we've had under center. THIS is what we've been wanting to see in Baltimore for far too long. THIS is what Harbs wanted during the AFCCG when he said, 'This isn't working, we have to open it up, we gotta get aggressive,' on the sidelines. The defense definitely carried Joe for his first two years. After that, it's been all Joe despite having less than stellar parts to work with. Now that we actually have more than one reliable receivers and an OC that's willing to use every part of the field, this is what we're looking at.

    I'm not saying Joe should be paid like a great. I'm not saying I wouldn't love him to take 16 or 17 million instead just so we have more room to maneuver. I'm just saying that this price didn't come out of nowhere and it's not just about three postseason games. It IS about his entire body of work and what the team realizes could have been far earlier if we'd just done what we needed to do instead of waiting because our backs were against the wall. He's gonna get paid for his body of work, and seeing as how it's phenomenal, he's gonna get what he wants.
    Wins is a terrible measuring stick for a QB. Up until last year, Sanchez had comparable win statistics through his first 3 years, including 2 AFC Championship appearances.

    The guy has earned his cash and if/when he wins the Super Bowl it will be a great feeling. However, 3-4 games of amazing play doesn't really assuage worries of inconsistency. The guy is a great QB and will be here for a long time.

    However, no one has enough information to say that Flacco has gotten over those consistency issues. 3 games is just not enough time. Which is why you have to base the contract on his entire body of work (0 Pro Bowls, never passed for more than 4000 yards, etc) rather than JUST the past 3 games. The past three games are important. Winning a Super Bowl is important. It's earned him a lot of money. But you can't discount his past inconsistency an,d at times, 'pedestrian' numbers just because he has had a strong playoff run.

    That's all I'm saying. The only way to prove he is a consistent QB is to be consistent. And he hasn't had enough time to do that. What if he comes out, god forbid, and throws 2 INTS and goes 12/30 for 170 yards in the Super Bowl? Is he still the 'consistent' QB that you project him to be?




  2. #107
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Plus, by several different accounts, the Ravens offered Flacco a 6 year $96 million deal. That's not peanuts.
    Peanuts compared to what he'll end up getting if they win this Super Bowl.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  3. #108
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Im hopeful that he "settles" for that 16-17 range but i think hes said as much. He doesnt think hes one of the best, he thinks he IS the best. Knowing thats how he approaches the game i dont think its odd to ask for the most money, but hopefully his agent and ozzie can come to a compromise.

    If it really was just guaranteed money being the issue, i dont see an issue. Hes going to be our qb the next 6-7 years regardless unless hes out of the league due to injury, which you cant really prepare for.
    Totally agree, the guaranteed money shouldn't be an issue at ALL IMO. He has next to zero injury history, even at college.




  4. #109
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    People make me laugh how they think the Ravens "failed" to lock Flacco up. 96 million over 5/6 years for Flacco in the offseason was more than fair for what Flacco was at the time.
    Joe told them he was worth more than that. They gave him the opportunity to show it. They finally got Cameron out of the way and Joe showed it. He's been voicing his displeasure with Cameron for years now and Bisciotti has wanted Cameron gone for a while. There was a reason for that.

    It's not Joe's fault that the team philosophy was to run the ball and play to its defense. The offense was not set up to develop a high quality QB. Yet, Joe has developed into one.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  5. #110
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Joe told them he was worth more than that. They gave him the opportunity to show it. They finally got Cameron out of the way and Joe showed it. He's been voicing his displeasure with Cameron for years now and Bisciotti has wanted Cameron gone for a while. There was a reason for that.

    It's not Joe's fault that the team philosophy was to run the ball and play to its defense. The offense was not set up to develop a high quality QB. Yet, Joe has developed into one.
    I agree with the premise of your post, but I was simply refuting peoples claims that the FO have failed with Flacco, and failed to lock him up for the future, quite the opposite infact.




  6. #111
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    If they make Flacco the highest paid QB in football, Rogers is going to be a rich rich rich man pretty soon.




  7. #112
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I can offer you a lot of names that actually did believe that around here lol...

    I'm still not quite sure if Flacco is worth 20 mills a year. 16.5 a year is about fair IMO, he is pretty much in the same market as Roethlisberger and Eli IMO, looks like he sees him self even higher than that...
    He's two years younger than Roethlisberger, has taken down Roethlisberger in the division with back to back division titles and Roethlisberger isn't getting any healthier. He's four years younger than Eli Manning.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  8. #113
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    If the reports are true about Flacco wanting $20 million/year, then he should get ready for the franchise tag. The Ravens have used the franchise tag on a number of players in the past, and would use it on Flacco. I think Flacco would be taking a big risk turning down $17-$18 million/year, especially if the Ravens raise the guaranteed money. Next year’s Ravens team may struggle to make the playoffs or may even miss the playoffs. A rebuilding team is not conducive to a QB putting up huge numbers.




  9. #114
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    If they make Flacco the highest paid QB in football, Rogers is going to be a rich rich rich man pretty soon.
    Rodgers still has 2 more years to go on his deal. The Packers were proactive and got a steal. 6 years $65 million and just $20 million guaranteed.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  10. #115
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    They have no choice, but to move now. If Atlanta shells out for Ryan, that might drive Flacco's price up even more. He is at least six years younger than Brady, Brees and Manning. He is four years younger than Eli. Ben is breaking down and that only leaves Rodgers.

    Flacco has helped this team take over the AFC in the toughest way possible. With Caldwell calling plays and most of the offensive talent under contract for a while, it would be hard to see how that is going to change anytime soon unless he gets hurt.

    Besides, how many of the aforementioned QBs have had postseason run like this. 8 TDs, 0 Ints, Averaging almost 28 points per game on offense (Excluding the pick six in Denver)? If the Ravens win the Super Bowl and Flacco does not throw a pick, he'll be the first QB to have a four game Super Bowl run of this magnitude, without throwing a pick. Yet, another first to add to his building resume.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  11. #116
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    I think a lot of people are putting way too much stock in this five game stretch. Ozzie has said he's looking at the whole body of work, and I absolutely believe him. In fact, I certainly hope he is telling the truth. Bad teams offer guys big contracts for short stretches of success. Mike Vick in Philly. Derek Anderson in Cleveland. Ryan Fitzpatrick in Buffalo.

    Ozzie knew a year ago Joe was good enough to get us to the Super Bowl. He also knew that Joe -- not Cam, not the rest of the offense, but JOE -- is not the most consistent quarterback in the league. He has a very good idea what Joe is as a player.

    We can all say "see I told you so" because Caldwell/Joe have had this run. But what if they regress next year, after people have this new Ravens offense on tape? What if it's really true that Cam's firing and Ray's retiring just have these guys extra focused? What if some guys are just playing way over their head, and the team is just on a hot streak (like the Giants last postseason)? You can't expect those things to carry over. I will bet an awful lot of money that the days of people bitching about the Ravens offense are not over, not by a long shot.

    The Eli comparison is appropriate, and that's about where Joe's money is going to end up. If he lights it up for four or five years, then he'll get a Peyton/Drew/Tommy contract.




  12. #117

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Joe told them he was worth more than that. They gave him the opportunity to show it. They finally got Cameron out of the way and Joe showed it. He's been voicing his displeasure with Cameron for years now and Bisciotti has wanted Cameron gone for a while. There was a reason for that.

    It's not Joe's fault that the team philosophy was to run the ball and play to its defense. The offense was not set up to develop a high quality QB. Yet, Joe has developed into one.
    The combination of the Ravens' refusal to get rid of Cameron earlier on, coupled with their offering that Joe and his agent considered low, which was in fact low, is what has created this current situation. Had the Ravens upped the offer and removed Cameron earlier, I seriously doubt that we'd be talking about it now.




  13. #118

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Franchise tag would be $14M for the year.
    the next year it would be about 18m. 20% uplift. I am guessing he gets about 7 years 17.5m per year. I think they have more or less agreed on the yearly dollar figure but it was the guaranteed money that is still being negotiated.




  14. #119
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by HotInHere View Post
    I think a lot of people are putting way too much stock in this five game stretch. Ozzie has said he's looking at the whole body of work, and I absolutely believe him. In fact, I certainly hope he is telling the truth. Bad teams offer guys big contracts for short stretches of success. Mike Vick in Philly. Derek Anderson in Cleveland. Ryan Fitzpatrick in Buffalo.

    Ozzie knew a year ago Joe was good enough to get us to the Super Bowl. He also knew that Joe -- not Cam, not the rest of the offense, but JOE -- is not the most consistent quarterback in the league. He has a very good idea what Joe is as a player.

    We can all say "see I told you so" because Caldwell/Joe have had this run. But what if they regress next year, after people have this new Ravens offense on tape? What if it's really true that Cam's firing and Ray's retiring just have these guys extra focused? What if some guys are just playing way over their head, and the team is just on a hot streak (like the Giants last postseason)? You can't expect those things to carry over. I will bet an awful lot of money that the days of people bitching about the Ravens offense are not over, not by a long shot.

    The Eli comparison is appropriate, and that's about where Joe's money is going to end up. If he lights it up for four or five years, then he'll get a Peyton/Drew/Tommy contract.
    There are a few issues that I have with your thinking. None of the QBs that you mentioned had this type of run in the playoffs, let alone an opportunity to win the Super Bowl.

    Second, you are really speaking in 'what ifs'.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  15. #120
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    The combination of the Ravens' refusal to get rid of Cameron earlier on, coupled with their offering that Joe and his agent considered low, which was in fact low, is what has created this current situation. Had the Ravens upped the offer and removed Cameron earlier, I seriously doubt that we'd be talking about it now.
    If Cameron had been removed earlier, Joe might have already shown that he was worth what they are now going to have to pay him, from a statistical standpoint. Even still, we already knew the man was clutch, despite playing through a jackass'd administration of the Coryell system.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




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