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  1. #76

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I don't think they would, but it gives them that option if they really feel that they cannot live without Ed Reed next year.

    That was my point.

    Giving Flacco the tag SEVERELY limits what the front office can do.

    Giving Flacco a new deal will still impact the cap, but not so much that they cannot extend fair market deals to Kruger, Ellerbe, Reed, as well as retaining their RFA's/EFA's, and possibly a couple of "right player, right price" free agents.
    Exactly. It just gives the Ravens more options to NOT slap the franchise tag on Joe, so I think we're saying the same thing. Plus, it goes further towards good will to not franchise a player if you don't have to. The Ravens tried to get a lower deal, it didn't work out, now you pay the man who is your franchise QB.




  2. #77
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    Eli Manning is the perfect comparison in my opinion. Within the context of the right team situation he can lead them all the way (obviously). The difference between that and Brady/Brees/Peyton/Rodgers is that they can do it with a subpar offensive line and late round pick WRs.

    Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk




  3. #78
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    And the bottom line, as at least 2 other posters have already pointed out, is that the Ravens blew it by not locking up Joe before it came to this point.
    The Ravens don't have a crystal ball. At several points during the season, when Joe wasn't playing nearly as well as he is now, many board members were saying how that was actually working in our favor.

    And it's not like the Ravens didn't try to work out a deal with Joe.




  4. #79

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus View Post
    The Ravens don't have a crystal ball. At several points during the season, when Joe wasn't playing nearly as well as he is now, many board members were saying how that was actually working in our favor.

    And it's not like the Ravens didn't try to work out a deal with Joe.
    It didn't require any "crystal ball". Joe has put up numbers that few if any QBs have put up in their first 5 years. And he did it with a micro managing OC, a sub par O-line, and less than elite WRs. So just stop it already, okay? If the Ravens didn't see what they had in Joe Flacco, then it's on them, not on Joe. If plain old fans could see what Joe brought to the table, it's incumbent upon a billion dollar franchise to see it too.




  5. #80
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by chicagoravensfan View Post
    Eli Manning is the perfect comparison in my opinion. Within the context of the right team situation he can lead them all the way (obviously). The difference between that and Brady/Brees/Peyton/Rodgers is that they can do it with a subpar offensive line and late round pick WRs.

    Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk
    Brady doesn't have a "subpar" offensive line. The Patriots line graded out as 2nd best according to PFF. Also, Peyton has the 4th best o-line, and the Saints have the 6th best o-line. The Packers were the only team out of the 4 you mentioned that had a subpar o-line. Aaron Rodgers will take a lot of sacks holding onto the ball though. He was sacked 51 times in the season.

    I don't buy into the late round WR's either. Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rodgers all have a lot of talent to throw to. Brady has Welker, Gronk and Hernandez. Peyton has Eric Decker, Demarius Thomas, and Tamme. Brees has Colston, Henderson, Moore and Graham. Finally, Rodgers has Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Randall Cobb, Greg Jennings, etc... It doesn't matter where a guy is drafted if they turn out to be good. Plus there are some 1st rounders on that list.
    Last edited by Paintballguy; 01-29-2013 at 09:25 AM.




  6. #81
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    It didn't require any "crystal ball". Joe has put up numbers that few if any QBs have put up in their first 5 years. And he did it with a micro managing OC, a sub par O-line, and less than elite WRs. So just stop it already, okay? If the Ravens didn't see what they had in Joe Flacco, then it's on them, not on Joe. If plain old fans could see what Joe brought to the table, it's incumbent upon a billion dollar franchise to see it too.
    Yea, because a bunch of us on a message board are light years ahead of the people who assembled the only team in the NFL to win playoff games in each the last 5 seasons.

    I'm not saying the Ravens are above criticism, but to say they "blew it" by not locking him up before this season ignores the fact that the did try to lock him up before this season.

    Fact is, the Ravens did see a lot of value in Flacco, which is why they offered him the contract they did. They weren't comfortable with what Flacco and his agent were asking. I'm not going to dog them for that, even if it doesn't work out in their favor in the long run. Hindsight is 20/20.

    It easy for people on a message board to say they called it or when they get it right, but then disappear when they get it wrong. I'm not referring to you specifically, just the general tendency of message boards.

    The Ravens don't have that luxury. They make difficult decisions in a public setting, and they do a pretty good job of it. IMO, they made the right decision based on the info they had at the time. To be clear, that decision was to try to lock up Flacco in the off-season, but at a price they deemed fair based on the information they had at the time.

    For the record, I've generally been a Flacco "defender" on these boards. I agree with you that he's been a good QB for us and showed potential to be more than that. I just disagree with your evaluation of the FO's decision making.




  7. #82
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus View Post
    The Ravens don't have a crystal ball. At several points during the season, when Joe wasn't playing nearly as well as he is now, many board members were saying how that was actually working in our favor.

    And it's not like the Ravens didn't try to work out a deal with Joe.
    Plus, by several different accounts, the Ravens offered Flacco a 6 year $96 million deal. That's not peanuts.
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  8. #83
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    Brady doesn't have a "subpar" offensive line. The Patriots line graded out as 2nd best according to PFF. Also, Peyton has the 4th best o-line, and the Saints have the 6th best o-line. The Packers were the only team out of the 4 you mentioned that had a subpar o-line. Aaron Rodgers will take a lot of sacks holding onto the ball though. He was sacked 51 times in the season.

    I don't buy into the late round WR's either. Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rodgers all have a lot of talent to throw to. Brady has Welker, Gronk and Hernandez. Peyton has Eric Decker, Demarius Thomas, and Tamme. Brees has Colston, Henderson, Moore and Graham. Finally, Rodgers has Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Randall Cobb, Greg Jennings, etc... It doesn't matter where a guy is drafted if they turn out to be good. Plus there are some 1st rounders on that list.
    Not that I disagree with you all that much...but if you watched the Saints play this year, their OL was really not that great. They definitely were not the dominant unit that they were a few seasons ago.

    Drew Brees makes their OL look a lot better than what they really are, IMO.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  9. #84
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Plus, by several different accounts, the Ravens offered Flacco a 6 year $96 million deal. That's not peanuts.
    Bisciotti himself said they had an offer on the table for Joe which would surprise a lot of people.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Not that I disagree with you all that much...but if you watched the Saints play this year, their OL was really not that great. They definitely were not the dominant unit that they were a few seasons ago.

    Drew Brees makes their OL look a lot better than what they really are, IMO.
    I don't disagree with you. The other poster claimed they were subpar though which I don't think they were.




  10. #85

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus View Post
    Yea, because a bunch of us on a message board are light years ahead of the people who assembled the only team in the NFL to win playoff games in each the last 5 seasons.

    I'm not saying the Ravens are above criticism, but to say they "blew it" by not locking him up before this season ignores the fact that the did try to lock him up before this season.

    Fact is, the Ravens did see a lot of value in Flacco, which is why they offered him the contract they did. They weren't comfortable with what Flacco and his agent were asking. I'm not going to dog them for that, even if it doesn't work out in their favor in the long run. Hindsight is 20/20.

    It easy for people on a message board to say they called it or when they get it right, but then disappear when they get it wrong. I'm not referring to you specifically, just the general tendency of message boards.

    The Ravens don't have that luxury. They make difficult decisions in a public setting, and they do a pretty good job of it. IMO, they made the right decision based on the info they had at the time. To be clear, that decision was to try to lock up Flacco in the off-season, but at a price they deemed fair based on the information they had at the time.

    For the record, I've generally been a Flacco "defender" on these boards. I agree with you that he's been a good QB for us and showed potential to be more than that. I just disagree with your evaluation of the FO's decision making.
    N/P. We can agree to disagree.




  11. #86
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    N/P. We can agree to disagree.
    Fair enough.




  12. #87
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    At the expense of the rest of their team?

    I'm not so sure...

    Getting Flacco under a new deal means they can franchise Kruger, Ed Reed, and/or Ellerbe.

    Franchising Flacco means they'll likely have to overpay for those guys.
    It's a negotiating tool like anything else. They just need to convince Joe that they are willing to do it, they don't actually have to use it. It's pretty much the only move the Ravens have. They can tag him and hope they get a last second deal just like they did with Rice last year.

    We all know that the Ravens won't let Joe hit the market which means if there is no deal then Joe will be tagged.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  13. #88

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Ozzie's $4 million/year mistake will cost a number of decent players.
    Not so sure of that. If anything their reputation as a first class organization, recent playoff success and hopefully a SB win would be attractive for guys wanting to play for a winner. Most highly quality veteran players may very well give a discount to come here.




  14. #89
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    People make me laugh how they think the Ravens "failed" to lock Flacco up. 96 million over 5/6 years for Flacco in the offseason was more than fair for what Flacco was at the time.




  15. #90
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    People make me laugh how they think the Ravens "failed" to lock Flacco up. 96 million over 5/6 years for Flacco in the offseason was more than fair for what Flacco was at the time.
    You're right. Both sides were talking so it's not like the Ravens didn't try. The owner even made comments about wanting to sign Flacco to a deal. Flacco rolled the dice much like Cary Williams did and it worked in his favor.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




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