Ongoing Flacco Contract Negotiations (Merged)

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 02-12-2013, 10:41 AM

FYI...I don't think anybody is worrying about the deal "getting done".

IMHO, of course it's going to get done.

That's not why I raised concern.

It's waiting until the last minute and the likelyhood that we are going to have a $20 million cap hit because we aren't going to come to an agreement in time to actually have a shot at maybe retaining Ellerbe, maybe Ed Reed and whatever other UFA various people have mentioned over the course of the season...Knighton, Boley, etc... that has me disappointed.

**leachisabeast** · 02-12-2013, 10:42 AM

We're pretty much screwed if we don't get Flacco signed, we are going to have to use the exclusive tag, unless Flacco guarantees he wont accept any deals. We'd need one hell of a draft to pull that one off. Or we could hope that there are some good FAs left out there post June 1st, which is unlikely.

**bmorecareful** · 02-12-2013, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Dirt1

Why do people think that the Ravens using the non-exclusive tag automatically means that the Ravens are willing to part with Flacco, or an indication that they want him to take less money? They could just use that approach to arrive at what the market value is for Flacco. Ozzie has used the franchise tag on a bunch of players in the past. Flacco isn't giving up any money if no other team is willing to pay him more than the Ravens. Also, if a team offers a huge contract to Flacco, the Ravens could always match it, because we are not dealing with a draft situation here. The Redskins gave up two first round picks for RGIII, but there was also a rookie salary cap in place. RGIII's contract is nothing like the one Flacco will command.

Go back and re-read my post, or if you're unwilling I'll repeat myself here for your convenience. The Ravens can't just match any deal. If the Jaguars, Browns, or Bills wanted to sign Flacco to an offer sheet, they can structure a contract that the Ravens are not capable of matching. All they need to do is make the 2013 cap hit huge.

The Browns are the best candidate to do this. They have $50m of cap space in 2013. Read that again--FIFTY MILLION. If they want to sign Flacco to a 6 year, $120m deal with $70m guaranteed, they can make his 2013 base salary $40m guaranteed. There is NO rule in the CBA preventing this as it is NOT considered a poison pill.

The Ravens CANNOT match that. Well, I guess they could, but they would need to cut probably around 15 players, including Ngata, Suggs, Yanda, Rice, and Webb, ON TOP OF all the guys that the Ravens were already considering cutting (Boldin, Jacoby, Leach, McClain, Birk, Williams). It may even be literally impossible depending on when it happens, as releasing the big money guys pre-June 1st would accelerate all their dead money to 2013.

So, bottom line, if the Ravens put the non-exclusive tag on Flacco, they are betting HUGE that A) Cleveland isn't interested, or B) Flacco will not sign with them even if they offer a better contract. That's a massive, massive gamble, which IMO Ozzie can't risk.

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

The Brees / Saints negotiations were far more public and contentious than Flacco's deal and they managed to get the deal done.

We have public comments from both sides stating their desire keep Joe in a manner that doesn't handcuff the team and nowhere near the nastiness That surrounded the Brees signing.

It's going to get done. Don't buy the media hype with stories of "ifs". It's a slow time for sports media so they're going to spin everything related to the Super Bowl MVP as the biggest story of all time.

I do agree with this. I think it's optimistic, but not totally unrealistic, that something gets done quickly. I also think it's a bit naive to accept the public comments about Joe wanting to stay as anything other than agent-speak and FO-speak though.

**Dirt1** · 02-12-2013, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Go back and re-read my post, or if you're unwilling I'll repeat myself here for your convenience. The Ravens can't just match any deal. If the Jaguars, Browns, or Bills wanted to sign Flacco to an offer sheet, they can structure a contract that the Ravens are not capable of matching. All they need to do is make the 2013 cap hit huge.

The Browns are the best candidate to do this. They have $50m of cap space in 2013. Read that again--FIFTY MILLION. If they want to sign Flacco to a 6 year, $120m deal with $70m guaranteed, they can make his 2013 base salary $40m guaranteed. There is NO rule in the CBA preventing this as it is NOT considered a poison pill.

This is not a draft. The final decision lies with Flacco with regard to where he wants to play next year. If Flacco is flexible on how the contract can be structured then whatever the Clowns want to try and do is a moot point. The Ravens can match to total dollar value and the guaranteed money. I don't think that Flacco wants to leave.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 02-12-2013, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dirt1

This is not a draft. The final decision lies with Flacco with regard to where he wants to play next year. If Flacco is flexible on how the contract can be structured then whatever the Clowns want to try and do is a moot point. The Ravens can match to total dollar value and the guaranteed money. I don't think that Flacco wants to leave.

Of course he doesn't want to leave.

He also wants to get paid and isn't going to take some big discount...if we can offer what Cleveland or whoever can offer, there should be no problem at all offering that now. If we can't, and someone comes along with a bigger offer, he is going to take the money.

**kronusthebonus** · 02-12-2013, 10:57 AM

I was just speculating, what if KC or Cleveland do sign Joe to an offer sheet and have to give up 1st round picks for him? I mean it's a pretty weak draft as far as QBs are concerned. Having two really low 1st round picks wouldn't be the END of the world, especially if you can grab an Alex Smith on the cheap, yeah? Imagine what Ozzie could do with those kind of picks to replenish the rest of the team.

Worst case scenario, but meh... could be worse, we could be the Browns.

**Dirt1** · 02-12-2013, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Maybe...Aaron Wilson is reporting the meeting as next week as well.

I hope you are right, but I also think they had absolutely no way Suggs, or Ngata, or McAlister, or Rice were going to leave either...they knew each guy was going to get a huge contract. Yet they always waited until the absolute last second to do each deal. Ngata and Rice in particular...if they had been done earlier in the season, we would have been able to be bigger players in the secondary UFA market if they did the deals before the UFA seasons started...and they once again waited.

I know they have no intentions on letting Joe walk, and I know they realize this is going to be an enormous deal. I just have very, very little confidence that it will make much of a difference based on the teams history.

Yup

Sure we could match the offer...if we wanted to gut half the team by having to cut a bunch of players.

If a team offers a deal with a cap hit of $30-35 million THIS year, please tell me your plan of clearing all that cap space? And if they would match an offer like that, why would the team wait for a crippling deal when they can save money if they do it themselves?

Exactly. Saying "we'll just match" shows very little comprehension of the cap and our roster.

I agree totally again.

Players have too short of this earning potential to just act like money isn't part of the equation. This may be Joe's only shot at a deal of this magnitude...he may take a small amount lower, but his market is his market and everybody should be paid their market value or at least as close to it as possible.

The issue is, the non-exclusive tag is not market value and isn't anywhere close to it.

And frankly, again, saying we "could just match it" shows a total lack of awareness of our cap situtation and common sense IMHO...why be forced to match a deal that assuredly would push first year money to $30+ million when we can just use the exclusive tag and keep it down around $20 million while still having the ability to come to an agreement that would knock it down even further to $10 million? Seems counter productive to me.

LOL! THIS IS NOT A DRAFT PEOPLE! The final decision lies with Flacco on where he wants to play. If Flacco insists on a contract that causes a cap hit of $35 million for next season, then he will not be on the Ravens, and he knows that. Flacco's agent has already said that they are flexible on how the contract is structured, so it doesn't matter how another team structures their deal. The Ravens have the option to match the total value of the contract and the guaranteed money. At the end of the day, Flacco has to sign an offer sheet. Hell, please correct me if I am wrong, but Flacco could even sign for less money with the Ravens than what another team offers (I am not saying that would happen, but that under the rules it could happen). The Ravens do not have to match the exact terms of another team's offer, but will have to match the total value and guaranteed money to reassure Flacco that he is being paid current market value.

**leachisabeast** · 02-12-2013, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by kronusthebonus

I was just speculating, what if KC or Cleveland do sign Joe to an offer sheet and have to give up 1st round picks for him? I mean it's a pretty weak draft as far as QBs are concerned. Having two really low 1st round picks wouldn't be the END of the world, especially if you can grab an Alex Smith on the cheap, yeah? Imagine what Ozzie could do with those kind of picks to replenish the rest of the team.

Worst case scenario, but meh... could be worse, we could be the Browns.

This is the ABSOLUTE WORSE CASE SCENARIO. But I would never sign Alex Smith, I would rather trade for Nick Foles OR Kirk Cousins who are both young talented QBs, and then build a very good team around him.

I don't think it will come to that, and I will of course be blindly insulted for even mentioning it as a possibility, but anything is possible in the NFL.

**bmorecareful** · 02-12-2013, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Dirt1

LOL! THIS IS NOT A DRAFT PEOPLE! The final decision lies with Flacco on where he wants to play. If Flacco insists on a contract that causes a cap hit of $35 million for next season, then he will not be on the Ravens, and he knows that. Flacco's agent has already said that they are flexible on how the contract is structured, so it doesn't matter how another team structures their deal. The Ravens have the option to match the total value of the contract and the guaranteed money. At the end of the day, Flacco has to sign an offer sheet. Hell, please correct me if I am wrong, but Flacco could even sign for less money with the Ravens than what another team offers (I am not saying that would happen, but that under the rules it could happen). The Ravens do not have to match the exact terms of another team's offer, but will have to match the total value and guaranteed money.

I don't know what else to say to you. Your response to the question of "why wouldn't Flacco take a better contract elsewhere" seems to be "because he just won't, he loves the Ravens too much." That's fine, because now I know rational argument won't get through to you.

You're incorrect about how the offer sheet matching process works. If the Browns tender Flacco an offer sheet with a $35m 2013 cap hit, the Ravens must match the offer sheet exactly as it is written. That is the entire point of the process. If they didn't have to match the offer sheet in its entirety, only in total value and total guaranteed money, it would make the "exclusive" tag almost pointless.

**Paintballguy** · 02-12-2013, 11:15 AM

I can't wait until Flacco signs his 6 year 120 mil deal with the Ravens, so this craziness can end. But then I'm sure some people will be claiming that we won't win 8 games next year because of how Flacco's deal bankrupted the team.

**wickedsolo** · 02-12-2013, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

I hope you are right, but I also think they had absolutely no way Suggs, or Ngata, or McAlister, or Rice were going to leave either...they knew each guy was going to get a huge contract. Yet they always waited until the absolute last second to do each deal. Ngata and Rice in particular...if they had been done earlier in the season, we would have been able to be bigger players in the secondary UFA market if they did the deals before the UFA seasons started...and they once again waited.

I hear you, but Ngata, Rice, Suggs, and CMAC aren't 28 year old Super Bowl MVP QB's with a slew of records under their belt.

**wickedsolo** · 02-12-2013, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I don't know what else to say to you. Your response to the question of "why wouldn't Flacco take a better contract elsewhere" seems to be "because he just won't, he loves the Ravens too much." That's fine, because now I know rational argument won't get through to you.

You're incorrect about how the offer sheet matching process works. If the Browns tender Flacco an offer sheet with a $35m 2013 cap hit, the Ravens must match the offer sheet exactly as it is written. That is the entire point of the process. If they didn't have to match the offer sheet in its entirety, only in total value and total guaranteed money, it would make the "exclusive" tag almost pointless.

Which is exactly the reason why it will not come to that.