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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    I don't know what he's asking for but most of us agree he will get around $18M likely. So why not ask for $20 as your starting point? The Ravens don't want to franchise him over $1M a year when they can work out a long term deal
    It's bargaining 101. You always start high.


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  2. #17

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    The four-lettered network said he could ask for Brees money, not that he definitely will. Let's see how Sunday shakes out before speculating on his contract. Regardless of what happens, Joe will get PAID.




  3. #18

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    I said 6 years, 100 million throughout this season, and I still think that's the most likely number. If Joe's agent really wants the contract to say 6 years, 120 million, they can easily make that work by using funny numbers. I doubt he'll really get 20m a year.

    Vick signed a 6 year 100m deal a few years ago... but when actually scrutinized the deal didn't work that way at all. It was all funny numbers. The real questions are going to come down to the bonuses/allocations and the amount of guaranteed money.

    I think when all's said and done, Flacco's real contract will look something like 6 years, 100m, 50 guaranteed a large portion of which will be a big signing bonus. Add in some escalators and not-likely-to-be-earned incentives that could maybe bring it up to 120 or so... maybe add in an option year at the end to get to 7 years 120?




  4. #19

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Maybe this is finally the kick in the pants Ozzie needed to start actually getting extensions done before guy's walk years. Flacco has 100% of the leverage at this point and the FO has nobody to blame but themselves. They should have just gotten this done last August.

    The way Webb was handled ought to be the benchmark for the future. They got his extension done quickly and quietly well before he got to his walk year, with neither side leaking to the media, etc... I'm not sure if that was possible in the Flacco negotiations, but you really don't get the sense that they ever sat down and said "we're not leaving until this gets done."

    That was a mistake, and Ozzie doesn't make a whole ton of them, but I really don't like the way he's done extensions/re-signings at times.




  5. #20

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Listen, if the dude lights up the 49ers and wins the Superbowl. I could skate on that for the next couple years, sure. I think Joe knows he will get his money one way or another, if he truly wants to "win" he'll know not to cripple the team. He likes protection in the pocket, yes? Can't do it without an o-line.




  6. #21

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I said 6 years, 100 million throughout this season, and I still think that's the most likely number. If Joe's agent really wants the contract to say 6 years, 120 million, they can easily make that work by using funny numbers. I doubt he'll really get 20m a year.

    Vick signed a 6 year 100m deal a few years ago... but when actually scrutinized the deal didn't work that way at all. It was all funny numbers. The real questions are going to come down to the bonuses/allocations and the amount of guaranteed money.

    I think when all's said and done, Flacco's real contract will look something like 6 years, 100m, 50 guaranteed a large portion of which will be a big signing bonus. Add in some escalators and not-likely-to-be-earned incentives that could maybe bring it up to 120 or so... maybe add in an option year at the end to get to 7 years 120?
    I think it will average out to be about 17-18 Million per season, when all said and done, just hope next years figure is cap freindly.




  7. #22
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    To be honest, I don't really understand the desire for $20 million per year on Flacco's part. First of all, when you are talking net worth in the 8 figures, how much difference does a few more make? Wouldn't you be happier with a little less money on a better team. What if Bisciotti says "Sure Joe, we'll pay up. But tomorrow we are cutting Yanda and Boldin to get under the cap. We can't bring in any o-line help so Oher and Jah Reid will be your tackles next year." Wouldn't you rather have a little less money but have a better chance at multiple rings and not get sacked 50+ times a year?

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  8. #23
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    It's a relative number and the fact we are hearing about it means the number was leaked.

    He won't get $20 Million and I doubt he or is agent believe he will.

    It's still all negotiation ploys, nothing more.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #24
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    Maybe this is finally the kick in the pants Ozzie needed to start actually getting extensions done before guy's walk years. Flacco has 100% of the leverage at this point and the FO has nobody to blame but themselves. They should have just gotten this done last August.

    The way Webb was handled ought to be the benchmark for the future. They got his extension done quickly and quietly well before he got to his walk year, with neither side leaking to the media, etc... I'm not sure if that was possible in the Flacco negotiations, but you really don't get the sense that they ever sat down and said "we're not leaving until this gets done."

    That was a mistake, and Ozzie doesn't make a whole ton of them, but I really don't like the way he's done extensions/re-signings at times.
    Not every player wants to take an early deal. Look at Cary Williams. And for good reason a lot of times: Cary is going to make a lot more money than his offer last year. It's a risk to hold out for free agency but often it's worth it for a lot of players.

    And on the other hand, signing guys early is great but it also sets you up for holdouts when players realize that they are out-playing their deals. For example is Flacco signed a deal last year that averaged him 10-13 mil a year and then he had the exact same season this year, wins a Super Bowl, and maybe another Super Bowl in a year; you really think he's going to be happy being EXTREMELY underpaid in relation to his prodcution? That's how holdouts occur. Sooner or later you have to pay a guy what he is worth.

    It's a two way street really, it's not as easy as just saying "ok now I'm going to sign guys early."




  10. #25

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    Not every player wants to take an early deal. Look at Cary Williams. And for good reason a lot of times: Cary is going to make a lot more money than his offer last year. It's a risk to hold out for free agency but often it's worth it for a lot of players.

    And on the other hand, signing guys early is great but it also sets you up for holdouts when players realize that they are out-playing their deals. For example is Flacco signed a deal last year that averaged him 10-13 mil a year and then he had the exact same season this year, wins a Super Bowl, and maybe another Super Bowl in a year; you really think he's going to be happy being EXTREMELY underpaid in relation to his prodcution? That's how holdouts occur. Sooner or later you have to pay a guy what he is worth.

    It's a two way street really, it's not as easy as just saying "ok now I'm going to sign guys early."
    I get what you're saying but I'm not sure the Cary situation is comparable. They offered him a deal and told him take it or leave it; he left it. The same isn't true for Flacco... they were engaged in serious contract talks and there are indications that they were close to a deal at one point late last summer.

    I'm not saying a deal definitely would have happened if they pushed harder... we don't know enough to conclude that. But Ozzie's MO over the last few years has been to not pursue extensions before a player's walk year. He broke that mold with Webb and I'd like to see that happen more often.

    Don't buy the argument about holdouts. They're a bad idea--which is why they're pretty rare. They're especially rare for quarterbacks. And I don't think NFL GMs worry all that much about structuring contracts in anticipation of avoiding holdouts.




  11. #26
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Joe is gonna get paid. If he has a good SB (win or lose), he has even more bargaining power. IMO the FO is pretty much convinced that Joe is their franchise QB and are going to pay him. They are on the weak side of the bargaining table with this one.
    "Screw it, let's ride"!




  12. #27
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    I wonder if this is the same "source" that said Rice wanted AP type money last offseason.




  13. #28
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I get what you're saying but I'm not sure the Cary situation is comparable. They offered him a deal and told him take it or leave it; he left it. The same isn't true for Flacco... they were engaged in serious contract talks and there are indications that they were close to a deal at one point late last summer.

    I'm not saying a deal definitely would have happened if they pushed harder... we don't know enough to conclude that. But Ozzie's MO over the last few years has been to not pursue extensions before a player's walk year. He broke that mold with Webb and I'd like to see that happen more often.

    Don't buy the argument about holdouts. They're a bad idea--which is why they're pretty rare. They're especially rare for quarterbacks. And I don't think NFL GMs worry all that much about structuring contracts in anticipation of avoiding holdouts.
    The Cary Williams situation is comparable to most position players, which, going forward are going to be the people that are up for early extensions. I don't think the Webb deal is any different; intrinsicly, I'm sure he had a "take it or leave it" deal as well. He just took his.

    And the Webb deal is actually a good example of the dangers of early extensions. Now, we all hope and expect him to come back stronger than ever from his ACL injury. But what if he doesn't? What if his ACL injury hampers him in the same way the Foxworth or dozens of other players haven't recovered fully from ACL injuries? Injuries can happen any time but instead of waiting out his 4 year rookie contract, the Ravens may be faced with paying a guy 55 mil who can't play.

    The fact is that sometimes 1-2 years is enough to determine if a guy is going to be a good player in the future but a lot of times it simply isn't.

    And most times players are going to get more money on the open market so a lot of guys, like Cary Williams, are willing to wait it out and get the fat payday. Like I said, it's a two way street. That's why the players fought so hard in 1990 for free agency, it's why the sacrificed game checks in their player strike to get free agency. They want to get that big pay day and that only comes when you have competition for your services.

    Has Ozzie's contract strategy led to the Ravens NOT being able to sign any of their key targets?




  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    The Cary Williams situation is comparable to most position players, which, going forward are going to be the people that are up for early extensions.


    Has Ozzie's contract strategy led to the Ravens NOT being able to sign any of their key targets?
    I was upset when Suggs, Lewis and Scott all hit the market in the same offseason, but that has payed off well with Scott's career going downhill of late. Other than that, the only move I really questioned was not locking up Yanda and Ngata during the uncapped year, though as we saw with the Cowboys and Redskins the FO may have had legit reasons to avoid that.

    With Cary Williams I can see his argument for holding out for free agency -- he's a role player here but could be paid like a star elsewhere. With Flacco the team is going to be built around him -- why would you want $20 mill per year to go 5-11 in Jacksonville?


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  15. #30
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    The only logical answer is to trade Joe to Cincinnati and let Mike Brown spend some of that money he has been holding onto for decades.

    (I say this in jest, friends) I would love to see Flacco airing it out to AJ Green though.




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