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  1. #241

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money



    Quote Originally Posted by Paintballguy View Post
    You are correct.
    thanks... I didnt realize there was such a jump in cap salaries this year.

    2013 cap hit quarterback

    what happens if those teams restructure/extend before the league year or is that already set in stone?
    -JAB




  2. #242
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    No, you got it.

    Back in November, I would have expected them to use the Non-exclusive Tag for $14.6M.

    Now, they're going to have to use the Exclusive Tag (unless they get a deal done sooner).
    How much cap space do you think they would need to find to use the Exclusive Tag and still be able to field a team?
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  3. #243

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    I don't see how the Ravens have any choice but to get a long-term deal done with Flacco. I think it will be a very simple "negotiation":

    "How much guaranteed money do you want? Ok, we are fine with that number. Now, help us structure it in a way that also allows us to at least try to retain some of the players that contributed to your client's success: Boldin, McKinnley, etc., etc."




  4. #244

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    I don't see how the Ravens have any choice but to get a long-term deal done with Flacco. I think it will be a very simple "negotiation":

    "How much guaranteed money do you want? Ok, we are fine with that number. Now, help us structure it in a way that also allows us to at least try to retain some of the players that contributed to your client's success: Boldin, McKinnley, etc., etc."
    Well...McKin[n]ley ought to come pretty cheap. (Considering he died in 1901).





  5. #245

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Well...McKin[n]ley ought to come pretty cheap. (Considering he died in 1901).

    LOL...."right player, right price".




  6. #246

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    I'm starting to think that Flacco will be the highest paid player in NFL history, IN TOTAL CONTRACT DOLLARS. I'm thinking that to make this all work, while giving his agent a "victory" and with Flaccobettign on himself once again, that this deal will end up looking like 8 years and $160m. This will allow the team to get to the $20m number, and a fairly significant guaranteed figure, while also keeping the cap effect minimal for the first few years. We can guarantee his entire first 3 year payout, and have signing bonuses in each of those eyars, with small salaries.
    It may make for some interesting issues down the road, but it should solve our problems now AND get a John Hancock on the dotted line in short order.




  7. #247

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I'm starting to think that Flacco will be the highest paid player in NFL history, IN TOTAL CONTRACT DOLLARS. I'm thinking that to make this all work, while giving his agent a "victory" and with Flaccobettign on himself once again, that this deal will end up looking like 8 years and $160m. This will allow the team to get to the $20m number, and a fairly significant guaranteed figure, while also keeping the cap effect minimal for the first few years. We can guarantee his entire first 3 year payout, and have signing bonuses in each of those eyars, with small salaries.
    It may make for some interesting issues down the road, but it should solve our problems now AND get a John Hancock on the dotted line in short order.
    down the road 6-7 years just means extension and spreading it out further. Flacco is going to retire a Raven. I like the idea of a larger contract and Joe may be on board with it since hes got the most leverage you possibly could right now. 6 years from now hell be a mid 30's qb where youth and potential are no longer on his side for leverage and spreading whatever money left over a couple more years will be more likely a good decision for both parties. Im no cap guru, but I think you may be onto something.
    -JAB




  8. #248
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I'm starting to think that Flacco will be the highest paid player in NFL history, IN TOTAL CONTRACT DOLLARS. I'm thinking that to make this all work, while giving his agent a "victory" and with Flaccobettign on himself once again, that this deal will end up looking like 8 years and $160m. This will allow the team to get to the $20m number, and a fairly significant guaranteed figure, while also keeping the cap effect minimal for the first few years. We can guarantee his entire first 3 year payout, and have signing bonuses in each of those eyars, with small salaries.
    It may make for some interesting issues down the road, but it should solve our problems now AND get a John Hancock on the dotted line in short order.
    There is no way you can sign a player to that kind of contract in a league with a cap. The Saints have massive cap issues this season with year 2 jump in Brees's base salary. A baseball type contract can't work here. The salary cap just doesn't go up fast enough to support it.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  9. #249
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    You are paying him in part for what he has done and in part for what he is capable of doing.

    If you look at most other top QBs, they really came into their own in year 5 of their career, which Flacco just finished with a SB win and MVP. He is going into his prime. He is a franchise QB. He was one pass away from being in the SB two years in a row. He shined once Cameron left, just like Brees and Rivers did.

    He has all the leverage IMO.

    No, he doesn't have the stats the other guys do, but a lot of those other guys don't even have 1,000 yard RBs. Hell I think I read a stat where the Packers haven't had a 100 yd rusher in like 40+ games. Flacco could easily throw for 4000+ yards and 30 TDs in a system designed for such production. And maybe we will morph into that somewhat. But right now we still choose a more balanced offense, and have some darn good RBs to utilize.

    The simple fact is we have never been more stable as a team as with Flacco and he just won us a SB and was the MVP, in a post-season only comparable to Joe Montana. I mean...come on.

    Much easier to replace Cary Williams and Kruger than Flacco, so if they become the sacrifices, so be it. We need to retain Ellerbe more so than any other defensive player, even Reed, although I do want to see Reed retire a Raven. He hasn't played well, but as we saw this post-season, for some reason the likes of Brady and Manning still remain scared to throw at him.




  10. #250

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Well...I will wait for the Yoda/Master to weigh in...but here's my uneducated take:

    For Flacco, it is all about the guaranteed money - both at signing and during the term of contract. $10 million on signing day is worth less than $10 million on signing day + 4 years. But he still gets the money and insurance against non-performance or injury. The Ravens take on that risk.

    For the Ravens, it is all about managing the cap. I don't think - and reportedly there wasn't a whole lot of disagreement before the season - about the total guaranteed money. What prevented a deal from getting done was the structure...and perhaps the ballsy move by Flacco and his agent to "let it ride" this season. His price has gone up for sure, but from a cash-flow perspective the Ravens can certainly handle it.

    I think (hope) there is a middle-ground here....and pray he doesn't get hurt and/or regress.




  11. #251
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Joe Flacco is a smart guy. He's not going to completely cripple the team to stroke his ego. He's used to making the playoffs every year. I can't imagine he wants to give that up just so he can say he's making more money than any other QB.

    For his agent though it's different. Getting a record contract not only gets him a record fee but also would bring in a huge amount of business. He doesn't care how the team does. That's not his business. He's going to ask for the moon but it's up to Joe to reign him in and settle for something that makes sense for both sides.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  12. #252

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    For his agent though it's different. Getting a record contract not only gets him a record fee but also would bring in a huge amount of business. He doesn't care how the team does. That's not his business. He's going to ask for the moon but it's up to Joe to reign him in and settle for something that makes sense for both sides.
    Good point. And you also have to factor in the "reported value" of a contract and the "actual value". Linta will certainly use the "reported value" when he's on SEC campuses in a few weeks talking to wide-eyed 21-year olds.




  13. #253

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Yes, Joe IS a smart guy. And that's exactly where the issues already raised about how the Ravens chose to treat him, especially with the whole Zorn/Cameron incident, enters the picture. The Ravens, through their actions, paid huge money to Ngata, Suggs, and they also chose to re-sign Rice. They did not choose to re-sign Flacco. (And please don't start with "they offered him a lot of money", okay? They offered him less than he was worth, and never budged from that spot, betting they'd put the squeeze on him. They bet. And they lost.)

    They also continued to saddle Joe with Cam Cameron, despite the documented difficulties between those two. Joe also can see the Falcons going out and getting Julio Jones, after already having Roddy White, Michael Turner, and Tony Gonzales. What that all adds up to is that as far as building an offense around Joe, it never really happened. The O-line was a joke as well. So because Joe is smart, he's smart enough to look at all of that and take that into account.

    Everyone keeps talking about how much better it will be for Joe here vs elsewhere. That's all well and good, but that's also filled with a certain amount of hype. There are going to be a lot of changes next year. Harbaugh has already come out and said he wants to keep Ed Reed. Ed Reed does not help Joe Flacco, OR the Ravens all that much. A LT DOES. The Ravens are going to have to make some tough choices. And based on their track record, it's not nearly as bright and rosy for Joe as some of you are making it out to be. So the notion that Joe should take less for the privilege of playing for the Ravens, while well intended, really doesn't carry that much weight. And he knows it. Because he's smart. IF some of the other factors had been dealt with differently, then it would be different now. But the Ravens made THEIR choices, now it's Joe's turn.




  14. #254
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    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    I love people slamming his agent.

    What is his agent supposed to set the upper limit at? 5th best QB? NO! You set the upper limit to the highest reasonable position. Which is: #1 QB $$. You don;t set your max lower since you will never be able to go higher since the team already knows what you would have settled for.

    They will start at #1 level $, and through negotiation settle somewhere between 1-5 level money I would assume.

    But as an agent you absolutely start off with your initial asking of #1 QB money.

    Give credit to Flacco, the dude stepped his game up at the absolute perfect time, and went on to match Montana with one of the most brilliant QB postseason performances ever.




  15. #255

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    There is a lot that I could comment on, by I will focus on 2 things:

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    There are going to be a lot of changes next year. Harbaugh has already come out and said he wants to keep Ed Reed. Ed Reed does not help Joe Flacco, OR the Ravens all that much. A LT DOES.
    There are 2 people in the organization that determine who stays and who goes...one is responsible for doing the analysis and making the decision/recommendation. The other signs-off on that decision and cuts the check. Neither of those has the initials of J.H.

    Harbaugh has input into the decision, for sure. But so does Cass, DeCosta, Moriarty and Bisciotti's wife...

    The Ravens are going to have to make some tough choices. And based on their track record, it's not nearly as bright and rosy for Joe as some of you are making it out to be. So the notion that Joe should take less for the privilege of playing for the Ravens, while well intended, really doesn't carry that much weight.
    Name me a single franchise-caliber Raven that the organization has not offered market-value and/or failed to retain that, in hindsight, would come anywhere close to supporting your assertion.

    If anything, one can argue they overpay their home-grown talent.
    Last edited by JohnBKistler; 02-06-2013 at 12:39 PM.




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