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  1. #145

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money



    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    There's no way you can prove that Cameron was the sole problem. The only way you can prove that is if Joe IS consistent without Cameron. 3-4 games isn't enough to judge. And he looked very much the same in the first Denver game. I get there wasn't that much time for Caldwell, but the fact still remains.

    Joe has had great 3-4 game stretches before. I hope it is permanent but it's impossible to say that it will be. 2 quarters ago, this entire board was trashing Jim Caldwell for his playcalling and Joe for his inconsistency. You should have seen this board midway through the Pats game.
    I had a few choice words for Caldwell's game calling the first half as well. And guess what? As SOON as Caldwell just put the ball in Joe's hands, Joe won the freakin game! And Joe put the ball right in Evans' hands LAST year as well. And Joe had the Ravens ahead of the Steelers before the team fell apart in the second half several years ago. What the hell MORE do you want in terms of "consistency", man?
    Last edited by RavensRule21215; 01-29-2013 at 10:33 PM.




  2. #146

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    I had a few choice words for Caldwell's game calling the first half as well. And guess what? As SOON as Caldwell just put the ball in Joe's hands, Joe won the freakin game! And Joe put the ball right in Evans' hands LAST year as well. And Joe had the Ravens ahead of the Steelers before the team fell apart in the second half several years ago. What the hell MORE do you want in terms of "consistency", man?
    I mean, you can't sit here and say you didn't complain about Joe's offensive struggles (especially on the road), over the past 2 years.

    I'm really glad he turned it up when it mattered but it doesn't change the fact that his yards and TD totals are middle of the pack, mainly because of his inconsistency. I don't think top 10 in yards is THAT much to ask over the course of a regular season (which he has done once in his career). It's not the end all be all, clearly, but it's also not too much to ask from a guy who might get paid 18-20 mil per year.




  3. #147

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    I mean, you can't sit here and say you didn't complain about Joe's offensive struggles (especially on the road), over the past 2 years.

    I'm really glad he turned it up when it mattered but it doesn't change the fact that his yards and TD totals are middle of the pack, mainly because of his inconsistency. I don't think top 10 in yards is THAT much to ask over the course of a regular season (which he has done once in his career). It's not the end all be all, clearly, but it's also not too much to ask from a guy who might get paid 18-20 mil per year.
    Having a bunch of yards doesn't mean nearly as much as TD-INT ratio. It really doesn't mean much at all without the context in which those yards were gained.




  4. #148

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    Having a bunch of yards doesn't mean nearly as much as TD-INT ratio. It really doesn't mean much at all without the context in which those yards were gained.
    That's fair; I could change that statement to: "I don't think it's to much to ask for Flacco to have a QB Rating (which takes into account TD:INT ratio), in the top 10 if we're going to pay him 18-20 mil." Again, he's only done that once.

    I'm not saying Joe isn't a good QB, I'm just saying to pump the brakes a little on "pay him WHATEVER he wants." All I'm saying is pay him in relation to his performance over the past 5 years, not just his performance over the past 4 games.




  5. #149

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    That's fair; I could change that statement to: "I don't think it's to much to ask for Flacco to have a QB Rating (which takes into account TD:INT ratio), in the top 10 if we're going to pay him 18-20 mil." Again, he's only done that once.
    Ratings are tricky too, at least in context of ranking. Playing in the Coryell tends to lead to lower rankings that playing in the WC with the short, safe passes. Joe's rating for his career is around 88, right? I'd be curious to how that compares to some of the great QB's of the past(post 1978, anyway).




  6. #150

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    I mean, you can't sit here and say you didn't complain about Joe's offensive struggles (especially on the road), over the past 2 years.
    Really? Oh yes, I can. It was obvious the problem was Cameron, and nothing has changed. Joe Flacco has done MORE with less -- less O-line, less elite WRs, and definitely less OC creativity -- than ANY QB in the NFL. That's how I see it, and that's how I've seen it for years. I have no idea what you've been seeing, but clearly, it's not the same.




  7. #151

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensRule21215 View Post
    Really? Oh yes, I can. It was obvious the problem was Cameron, and nothing has changed. Joe Flacco has done MORE with less -- less O-line, less elite WRs, and definitely less OC creativity -- than ANY QB in the NFL. That's how I see it, and that's how I've seen it for years. I have no idea what you've been seeing, but clearly, it's not the same.
    Nope, it isn't the same. Certainly Cameron is partly to blame but it's hard to blame him for the first Denver game debacle, in which Flacco looked like the same inconsistent guy we had seen over the past 4 years.




  8. #152

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    Ratings are tricky too, at least in context of ranking. Playing in the Coryell tends to lead to lower rankings that playing in the WC with the short, safe passes. Joe's rating for his career is around 88, right? I'd be curious to how that compares to some of the great QB's of the past(post 1978, anyway).

    Thats true. Let's go through some Coryell Qbs in the modern era. The coaches who are Coryell disciples are: Cam Cameron, Norv Turner, Mike Martz, Al Saunders and Tom Moore.

    Phillip Rivers: 94.5
    Kurt Warner (under Martz): 94.05
    Marc Bulger: 84.4
    Manning (under Tom Moore): 94.9
    Flacco: 86.3

    I think he stacks up around the same place as I was saying. Pretty good for sure, but statistically not quite in the top echelon.

    Also interestingly enough Dan Fouts' career QBR is 80.2. Yeesh. He was pretty terrible up until about 1979... right around when Don Coryell came to town.
    Last edited by s.r.genovese; 01-30-2013 at 01:07 AM.




  9. #153

    Re: Flacco asking for Brees type money

    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post
    Nope, it isn't the same. Certainly Cameron is partly to blame but it's hard to blame him for the first Denver game debacle, in which Flacco looked like the same inconsistent guy we had seen over the past 4 years.




  10. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post

    The original point being made by Excellector was about how he outplayed Peyton and deserves a contract similar to his. I was originally refuting this idea.

    He'll get a big contract and he deserves one. He just doesn't deserve to be paid better than Peyton just because he outplayed him in a playoff game. You have to look at his whole body of work, which was my original point I think.
    You're also missing the fact that Joe is nearly a decade younger than Peyton and about 6-7 years younger than Brady.

    They're paying for what he has done and what he will do in the future.

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  11. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post

    Nope, it isn't the same. Certainly Cameron is partly to blame but it's hard to blame him for the first Denver game debacle, in which Flacco looked like the same inconsistent guy we had seen over the past 4 years.
    Haters gonna hate I guess.

    Must suck to live in a world where everything is just not quite enough...

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  12. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.r.genovese View Post

    Thats true. Let's go through some Coryell Qbs in the modern era. The coaches who are Coryell disciples are: Cam Cameron, Norv Turner, Mike Martz, Al Saunders and Tom Moore.

    Phillip Rivers: 94.5
    Kurt Warner (under Martz): 94.05
    Marc Bulger: 84.4
    Manning (under Tom Moore): 94.9
    Flacco: 86.3

    I think he stacks up around the same place as I was saying. Pretty good for sure, but statistically not quite in the top echelon.

    Also interestingly enough Dan Fouts' career QBR is 80.2. Yeesh. He was pretty terrible up until about 1979... right around when Don Coryell came to town.
    And all of those coaches ran completely different variants.

    You're also not taking into account adjustments and play calling. In reality, you're doing a pretty good job of cherry picking and goal post moving.

    I got news for you duder: Avg QB's dont carry teams through the post season, through two of the top teams in the AFC, and through one of the top rated defenses in the league.

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